Suggestions board 2013-04-21 through 2013-07-14

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Message: 10/1 (timeout warning) Posted Author
+where Apr 21 2013 Hibiki

Maybe it's just me, but I think it would be nice to have +where list by
Country (then Location) rather than however it lists it now. Just an
aesthetic detail, perhaps, but it seems like it might be nice.

`Hibiki
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Stealth crit Apr 22 2013 Satomi

I was thinking on how to make stealth more viable. How does this sound:
in addition to being capeable of charging in stealth; make it so that the
first attack after stealth can be defended against, but ignores DR if it's
a succes. If no DR to ignore, the attack does 125% damage. As in a …
"suprise attack critical damage" OR add a "Critical attack" mod which
essentially does the same. If an attack has said mod, it hits for 125%
damage if a succes from a stealthed position.
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Rr: Stealth Crit Apr 22 2013 Fudo

Stealth can be done every round. New rules would have to be made just
for this to work. Secondly, it would be adding in more damage variables to
a game that already has crippling/near lethal ranges of damage after B
rank. Beyond that, multiple ways to by pass DR probably isn't a good idea
in the end. Finally, with stuns, there is little reason why this would
need to be just from stealth any how.
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Just a Thought Apr 27 2013 Hibiki

Just a thought: it would be nice to have a conversion feature where a
player could convert PP into XP if they so desired (though not vice versa;
I think PP show a mark of quality involvement with the game, which should
be considered unique: not tradeable with XP — but just my opinion).
Perhaps something like one PP for four XP (the equivalent of Prestige
Votes to XP when you submit a log)?
Anyway, as I said, just a thought.

HibikiikibiH
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Collaboration moves Apr 27 2013 Satomi

So the lack of actuall team effort and standard pairups like you would
find in the anime/manga got me thinking. While due to timetables it's
understandable that it's not always exactly perfect or ideal, the system
currently also doesn't reward doing things together. Hence, collaboration
jutsus! They were introduced early in the anime. The oil + fire jutsu by
Jirayah an the toad-king-person-thingy.

How does it work? A collaboration is a combination of any given
combination of six attacks, three from one person, three from a second
person. The costs, amount to the total of the three moves one person does
+20% of the total stamina cost. Since it takes extra effort to coordinate.
The attack in the mix will have to be of the same rank. All E ranks, all D
ranks ect. You activate it by both hitting one person with the same
collaboration attack. The collaboration attack rolls on the most dominant
rollers in the combination. And on what makes sense. The roll is 2 ranks
higher than the actual jutsu's. So D-ranks roll B on hit. The damage is
the total of six rolls (each seperate attack) plus the average of the
total of the six rolls (say the total is 1500 damage, the bonus damage is
1500/6)

Now I know this is coding. BUT it promotes working together, building
partnerships.

The cost for buying this jutsu is the same as a regular jutsu would
cost. The rank cost would be the rank of the hit roller. (So a D-rank
collaboration costs what one B-rank jutsu costs in terms of experience)
However, the cost is split over 2 people.

This can also be applied to collaboration defenses. Which should defend
against 3 attacks with the same roll value) How to work this out exactly
codewise I'll leave to our magnificent coders.

Again what does this bring: Potentials to work together, AWESOME jutsu
combinations! Realism (since it brings us closer to the manga) … a new
combat mechanic which in my opinion isn't rediciolously overpowered, since
it also carries its risks. And yes, an uber-awesome S-rankc collaboration
would mean you'd need an S-rank collaboration defense or you're screwed!
But that only makes things more interesting! It means making teams will be
essential at some point! Especially if you're facing people who did manage
to make working teams! Or .. partnerships at least (like Itachi and
shark-guy)

VERY curious to hear what you guys think!

Application; Regular template. However, it must link to a log which shows
you and your partner actually training/practicing this combination. Or at
least discuss it!

Example: Fire-oil collaboration
Users: Jiraya and toad king
Roll: Int + nin, seal + sta
Rank: D (roll: B)
Consists of: Jiraya: Fireball Jutsu (x3)
Toad king: Oil-puke (x3) (NOTE: Can by any given combination of moves)
Description: Toad king pukes oil and stuff and the other guys sets them
on fire …

Okay, now… I hope that gives a clear idea of what I'm suggesting.
REALLY keen on getting your opinions! :D
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Collaboration Jutsu Apr 29 2013 Valkyrie

I'll make sure that the staff gives a good discussion of collaboration
jutsu. The code to create them already exists - in NRM 1, when pet users
had a seperate character bit for their pets, code was created to allow pet
users and their pets to perform combination attacks of just the type that
you're talking about. Some teams even applied for combination attacks
among their members.

In NRM 2, we'd need to look at a proper balance for combination attacks,
and at what rank such an attack mod would come into play. And, of course,
we'd need to do testing to make sure that the old code still worked in the
new system - though, it should.

Val
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Time Space Jutsu Apr 29 2013 Fudo

Let us start with a general definition of what TIme/Space jutsu entails
so that there is a frame of reference to work within while considering
this. I prepose that Time/Space jutsu means the manipulation of spacial
relativity as well as the occurance of when something occurs to the degree
of the immediate circumstances within human perception. By this
definition, we can contrive a few limitations to place upon jutsu of this
sort already. These limitations, loosely, would be that if it cannot be
fully understood or comprehended or experienced by the user, then it
cannot be done. So something like traveling through time to the past or
future would be out of scope simply because there is nothing calculating
all the variables for you to make sure it is correct (such as a time
machine). It also means that transporting oneself or something else is not
simply willing, but must be planned and understood. The 4th Hokage is a
great example, but even the limitations that Obito has (Even if he down
plays them) are a great example. Even obito was not simply able to be
where ever he wanted when ever he wanted, or he wouldn't have had to
search for people or places.
However, within the immediate area and within a limited time frame of
something occuring, there is the possibility of manipulating the flow of
time. This would mean that it may be possible to return someone to a place
they were before they attacked you as they attack, in order to "evade"
them by causing them to "miss" due to their action taking place in a
different time, but in the same space. On the other hand, you could also
simply displace them withi nthe same time frame and do something very
similar except for the fact that awareness of the circumstances changes in
that regard. The primary point being made here, is that there needs to be
an understandable limit based on the perceptions and limitations of the
human mind when it comes to space/time relativity in order to control what
is possible. Other wise you get situations such as killing people before
they are born. So let's make some presumptions of rules for Time first:

1. The user of a Time jutsu cannot travel to a time they have already
existed, nor a time they do not exist. This prevents all forms of time
travel for the user themselves from occuring.
2. The victom of Time manipulation can only be manipulated within an
easily precievable time period that occured no more than moments before.
The reason for this is that the clarity of their being out of synch with
time has to be precise or it simply will not work. So while a brief
encounter with someone could be erased from their short term memory by it
"never having happened", a life time of experience cannot be expunged, nor
can hours of interrogation go entirely unnoticed.
3. Within combat, time manipulation is based on immediate instances that
can be recalled or forseen. This would mean that momentary slowing,
acceleration, or displacement can be achieved within the effected area,
but it is limited by, ironically, time itself. It could be written off as
a universal constant has to be maintained and time has to essentially be
linear, even if there are bumps every now and then. Or it could simply be
that the recall or presumed effect has to be 100% accurate or it fails.

Space is easier to concieve. Moving objects or people from one place to
another in a teleportation type manner is simply conceptually an easier
thing to wrap ones head around. Naruto itself adds in pocket dimentions,
and that's where it gets sort of crazy and easily over powered. From
eternal imprisonment to ceasing to exist in our colelctive reality, easily
able to get out of control when pocket dimentions effect mortal beings.
Scroll summoning items is easily arguable as a form of this, but once
again, inanimate versus living are entirely different issues. So some
rules:
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Time Space Jutsu 2 Apr 29 2013 Fudo

1. Space being manipulated has to be immediate. Moving from one place to
another, yourself or others, objects, what ever, has to be done within the
time it takes to do the jutsu.
2. Things that are moved, have to be able to be entirely accounted for.
This means that moving something like a house would be very hard without
memorising all of it's dimentions and everything in it.
3. Partial displacement has to become impossible, or you end up with one
hit kill possibilities and hard to explain damage in RP circumstances for
those who want to have the possibility of being whole at the end of a
fight with a Space/Time jutsuist.
4. The relocation of something in space requires direct knowledge of
where it is going, and i'd even go so far as to say direct line of sight
beyond /specific/ detailed knowledge of where it is going (So if you know
there is a room that has 2 foot thick walls and is other wise empty, you
could transport a person or object in to that room. But not if you are not
aware of everything in the room and the entirety of the dimentions, so
this gets very hard and specific very quickly). Or, the relocation of
something or someone requires an anchor (4th Hokage) that is linked to the
jutsu's usage. The person can use these anchors as well as they can keep
track of them essentially, but they have to be there and prepared prior.
This makes it so you cannot teleport someone to another country on a whim.

Now, ground rules are assumedly in palce to allow for suggestions and
such. There is one final piece that i'd like to toss in here that needs to
be handled. "How is this jutsu able to be counter acted?". We do not want
to have another damage type to deal with, nor do we want ot to be
something that you cannot defeat because it is entirely intangible or
entirely undetectable. You also don't want to make it only detectable by a
few, or you create leargely the same problem, just for less of the
population. My suggestion here is that it use the rules (or some others)
that governs Time/Space jutsu as a whole, and then we account for the
combat system. At the end of the day, the rolls determine success or
failure. The only thing that changes that, is a damage type that is not
defensible. I would suggest we just stick with chakra, which in many cases
is. There are some common sense things here about what can defend against
these jutsu and what cannot. For instance, an earth wall can possibly
defend against them jsut fine, due to the established rules about complete
knowledge of what is being manipulated. Lack of line of sight makes this
hard. However, simply being tough does nothing RP wise to defend against
this sort of thing. It can be argued that using chakra to toughen you
changes you enough to be "unaccounted for", but not just being physically
tough or having armor or what have you.
The second part of this is of course evasion. The simplest way to fix
this, is essentially just going with canon. Disrupting space time has a
visual effect. Fast enough reaction can get you out of the way of the
effect before it is completed. I think this covers attacks and defenses
with Time/Space pretty well. Speed is the key, in acquiring the target,
deciding where or what to do with them, and taking in all other factors to
make it happen while using the jutsu. You have to be able to keep up with
the ability of your own jutsu, or it will fail.
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Plot-twist: sparking up interactio May 04 2013 Satomi

Been doing some writing and came up with a cool plot twist. It
originated from discussions about time/space jutsu. While that's still
under staff debate lets leave it out and instead call it style X.

Story: There once was a famous ninja, who at his deathbed told his sons
of developing a jutsu so powerful that it would lead their clan to glory.
He .. however, passed before he could tell his children of its location.
It was since then assumed a folklore legend. Mere speculation.

Untill recently. The land of rice experienced a coup de etate over
night! Seperatists have broken into the daimyo's palace and slaughtered
him and his family, declaring it the people's republic of rice. However,
soon dissidence started between seperatists who believed a different
political system would be wiser. And the land was split in two. The larger
eastern manor, and the smaller western manor. Each with large, mostly
mercanry armies. Because rice is such a precious commodity and used to
feed Shinobi in all five countries these changed are followed closely.
Both sides refuse to trade these precious resources with any country
unless they declare allegiance with them. So the villages and countries
will need to choose a side. East or west? And potentially aid in the
struggle.

To add insult to injury, the eastern manor have their main base in an
old fort built during the great war. And inside that fort they found a
sealed off room with some strange jutsu that killed anyone trying to get
in. There is a tombstone there, with the name of the legendary ninja,
who's legendary jutsu… his legacy, was thought to have been lost or
merely a folklore legend.

The eastern manor refuses to let anyone close to it, and are holding
the room hostage with explosives. However, they promise that whatever
ninja village aids them in their war with the western manor will receive
free acces into the sealed room and exclusive rights to the spoils found
inside. If time/space jutsu will get approved, it could be just that! But
it could be any style or simply money or … something arbitrary which
makes everyone facepalm.

The western manor however soon hear of this ploy and make the same
promise to the Shinobi villages. Help us defeat the east, and you will get
exclusive acces to the jutsu once their fortress has been taken.

Why this plot-twist? It has several reasons. One of the main reason is,
it'll spark some action between Shinobi villages. It means they'll be
forced to be diplomatic. Kage's will need to be online to coordinate their
village which might be unwillingly dragged into war. Even if they have no
interest in this jutsu (which I doubt is the case, it might be some
destroying ultimate jutsu you don't want your enemies to have!) They would
still need the rice trade from these countries. And still they would need
to declare their allegiance. And that might drag them into war. If their
side is losing, the new regime might refuse to trade with the ninja
village once the war is over. Additionally it helps create our own
history. Fleshes out the shinobi worlds. Creates epic stories and lots of
plot hooks for everyone from everywhere to be involved. And even if it
turns out non-violent. Ofcourse people will be distrustful, spying and
counter spying! Within villages clans will bicker over who will receive
the jutsu and what to do with it. Ofcourse the Uchiha must receive it
because they know what to do best. What? No… the Senju are famed for
their talents. We will take the jutsu! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE… clan heads,
get your ass online because your clan needs you!

This is an incentive to give FC's that political jumpstart they need to
get the villages out of this rut they seem to be stuck in! Looking
foreward to hearing your opinions. Especially plot staff.

As always, kind regards - Satomi
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Upper-tier stat thought May 05 2013 Ogosokamaru

Just as a musing, that should one wish to take a stat above 10, that
would reduce the available stat cap to 80-X=N. X being the amount of stat
points one has in any stat (all added together) ABOVE 10, and N being the
maximum allowed stats for that character.

Now, I understand this could be metagaming or powergaming in some lights.
Others, it reduces one's ability to max out all stats, or heck, could even
reduce the max stat cap by 2, 5, however many proportionate to the
over-achievement of one's stats.
Not to say that stats are everything. Heck, they aren't. Fun is
everything. Just thinking, 'one cannot be a master of two lifelong
pursuits'. In any case, I merely muse this. Please read disclaimers herein
before 'oh you just want to overpower people with taijutsu.'
Please note, weaknesses do abound, and every giant must fall very hard
sooner or later. Not tooting a horn. Just stating no matter how powerful,
others can always band together and banish even the toughest from
existance.
I digest. (Yes, I know digress is the word, but fun is the name of the
game and pun is my outlet that i'm plugged in to.)
So, possibility of anyone ever exceeding 10? Probably not. Severe
backlash if anyone ever could? Oh I would sure hope so. Evenness within
diversity. Anyway, have a nice day, food for thought. :)
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RE: 10 Cap May 05 2013 Nori

The only suggestion I'd make is that if the MUSH decided to go over 10 for
the stat cap, that a Fourth Tier be made for it and that in order to go
over 10, 5 (or 3) other stats already had to be at 10 to begin with. Then,
adding Ogo's idea of for every 1 stat point over 10, you lose 1 (or 3)
stat points for maxing out would still hold from there.
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10 Cap May 05 2013 Ai

I think it should be a little bit more simple. If you have a stat merit in
CG you should be able to increase that stat to 11. If you have a flaw you
shouldn't be able to increase it more than 9. This would make merits long
lasting and not just something you pick up to bump your stats early on.
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Re 10 cap - Ai May 05 2013 Satomi

How about clan stat bonusses? Do they also carry above ten? I'm just
saying that this would create a balancing friction that's hard to balance
in general.
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Re: 10 Cap - Satomi May 05 2013 Ai

Yes, Clan Stats would also allow this. However, if the individual's clan
(for example) Has a + Tai Stat and they also picked up the individual
merit in CG it would still be a cap of 11 rather than 12. This will make
so non-claned people still have a chance.
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Stat Cap May 05 2013 Fudo

On Odo's first point. Worst case scenario… you'd end up with
characters that have 14 in 4 main stats and 6's in 4 secondary stats.
Specifically on the Taijutsu side, this mean they have the most health,
the most stamina/chakra, and the potential for the highest roll range for
both hit and damage in the game (i'm talking beyond the 8th gates as
things currently stand) with an S rank that has +4's to those main stats.
They would be godly compared to everyone else, and just about every other
build, simply because of how reasources work and because of how transes
assist that and rollers work. Nothing else would compare. If you added the
gates to that, i think you might even have about 20's in stats, and if you
added the 8th gate and died, you'd break 20. And this is assuming you keep
those 10+'s even and don't max out the bare necessities for what ever.
Like stamina stacking, or tri stating. In a Tri stat scenario, you could
achieve 15 in three stats and still have some left over, and then get 20
out of an S rank that isn't the gates.

That stated, the idea of having a +1 or -1 from CG is actually not a bad
idea and it does mean that there are positive and negative consequences
added on to the CG process. So those min maxing in CG have to consider
this or it will have effects in the end. Right now, the effects are only
related to CG. When that is over, it is completely fixed (no deficiet) or
it doesn't hold an advantage (no addative effect). So, i do think this
idea is something worth considering for long term CG choices. And even if
you "mess up" it isn't a huge disadvantage or advantage to someone else,
but it does actually make them merits and flaws instead of just stat
shufflers.
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Re: Stats May 05 2013 Ogosokamaru

To All. I appreciate your input on the +bboard 10 discussion. I see with
what you are saying, Fudo, about the min-maxxing to extremeties, and did
not mean to make that any intention of my own, or anyone elses for that
matter though I didn't clarify it. I as well agree with the merits/flaws
idea. It would be like the weapon master merit in 1.0, where the ones who
took it could get a starter weapon (congruent here to the +1 for a stat)
and had exclusive access to s-ranked weaponry, where anyone who didn't
could only acquire up to I believe A-ranked weaponry (but the idea is
still there for stats in the same manner, those without the merit cannot
go the step above and beyone). In both cases, the ones with the
merits/flaws will be waiting a good long while (like you said in many
cases years or so) to even see end-game results of that merit or flaw take
effect.

Also, I understand the weapon master merit was just to -get- to the
highest possible rank. And in this case we are talking about popping the
top (whether against or for it) of stat caps. But:

Stats may be brought to a level above ten if that character has a merit
from chargen adding bonuses to that particular stat. Maximum +1, and flaws
removing stats in chargen will only ever be able to be raised to 9,
maximum of -1 total from original stat cap. They don't stack, and clan
bonuses count.

Also, I would like to say that someone going for just a bunch of stat
increases so they can have 4 11s, 3 10s and 1 9 at endgame does become
rediculous, but anyone with that kind of character mindset would probably
be weeded out for one reason or another along their journey, or hopefully
learn better by the time they get there.
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/17 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Stat Cap May 05 2013 Fudo

Based on some very good discussion, there are a couple of things that
need to be addrssed about how it could possibly be achieved. Due to how
the points are distributed in CG, merits being worth more than flaws,
perhaps this should be changed? In this case, you will in fact have a
penalty for a flaw, and a bonus for a merit. But before considering
changing that, there are still the non stat based merits and flaws and
their costs. This makes it so that "re CGing", whether that occurs in CG
or not, will be difficult. The math gets a little funky by itself, is the
reason. So… there may have to be some temporary, one time way to XP or
PP pay in to redistribution of CG.
When I say this, I mean to make up a "few" extra hanging points of CG
that are not able to be easily converted without taking a whole new flaw
for 2 or 3 points to get that one merit. I am not suggesting people be
able to psot CG buy all merits and no flaws no matter how much XP or PP
they have stored up, just to smooth it out due to the way the points
currently are.
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/18 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Stat Cap May 06 2013 Shoki

Just a heads up, staff did discuss this at our last staff meeting. This is
not the first time it has been suggested to raise the stat cap. Tier 4 was
suggested over two years ago the first time, and things like this have
been bounced around. It is pretty clear that adding another entire tier is
not going to happen. However some very interesting ideas have been put out
there about flaws and merits and changing the max stat to 9 or 11 based on
this. Right now the question is should clan bonuses apply to this as well,
or should it just be merit and flaw stat modifiers?

No clan has a negative stat modifier, only positive. Some clans have no
stat modifiers at all, and that might make them feel weaker. Some clans
have +1 in three stats! I'm looking at you Senju! The issue is if we
include clan bonuses it makes clans even more powerful in a system where
it appears we have already given clans a sizeable boost in discounts for
taking the clan for their bonuses, where as if we don't include clan
bonuses we potentially give clanless people more of a boost and decrease
the clan-bonus usefulness. This is currently under consideration and staff
will be doing some theory/number crafting over the next week about this.

The reason I am posting this here is I would be interested in how players
feel about this. Would players be more inclined to include stat bonuses of
a clan to raise the cap to 11? Or would they find that excessive?

I can tell you in my mind the clan bonuses represent not inherent boosts
of the individual but how the clan trains you when you are young. And so
not really something that should logically increase your max potential
logically. Yet on the other hand I don't want to make clans seem weaker
than to be clanless so I'm on the line on this one. That's why I'm doing
theory crafting on it. But… I am open to suggestions and comments from
players as are most staff on this issue I think.

So if anyone has a persuasive case to make on the issue please post it.
That said, do not let this devolve into an argument about it and please
don't push for one just because most of your characters are
clanned/clanless. Look at the big picture, not just your characters!

Many thanks, from Shoki
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/19 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Stat Cap May 06 2013 Daisuke

The cost of clans at CG has the stat cost included in the clan itself.
Even if you point out the Senju clan as having 3 stats, the stats are
completely unrelated to one another and only a true generalist that can
flesh out 3 full styles and raise 3 styles worth of stats would ever see
such a minor bonus to them. In order to implement this change you will
have to include the clans or else, as you even stated, clanless will
become completely overwhelmingly stronger in the end, which in a Naruto
world, makes no sense whatsoever.
And because of this, and the need to have balance by including the clan
boosts, this will also include the clans with +2 of one stat. The only way
not to include this boost of +2 is to give the clans with +2 a choice of
another stat to raise to 11, but it will still need to be done. You didn't
mention the redistribution of merits/flaws in your post so I can only
assume that you didn't like that part, but with such a massive change to
the importance of those merits, there is really no fair way not to give
them the chance to re-juggle their merits and flaws.
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/20 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Stat Cap May 06 2013 Atsuro

Speaking as someone who's got 10 in most of his stats (and all stats that
are important for my styles), I would absolutely love a way to keep
developing my character's abilities. Having said that, I'm completely
against anything that would ever allow a stat to go past 10 without a
transformation. I'll admit that part of this is simply inclination, but I
do have several concerns which no possible take on these ideas can
address, in my opinion.

First, we already have something of an 'old player is king' thing going on
here. Back in the first days of NMR 2.0, I think one of staff's reasons
for changing the combat system was to make it so that powerful characters
were still somewhat vulnerable, ie. a chuunin could go up against a jounin
and at least not get totally crushed. I don't know if that's the current
opinion of staff, but it's something we should aim for. I won't talk about
my reasoning on this because that's a whole other discussion, but I don't
think we've achieved it in the current system and letting people go past
the limit will just exacerbate the problem. The people who will benefit
the most from the new limit are the ones who can reach it as quickly as
possible, and those people are already the most powerful.

Second, I think the potential for this to become a treadmill is huge. Will
the people calling for a new limit reach this new limit and be content, or
will they start asking for some other way to keep going? I won't try to
answer that, but we need to be futuring this idea somewhat.

Last, the concept just doesn't work. As far as I can tell, ten was
originally conceived as the absolute peak of human ability, with
transforms being the only way to exceed that. Okay, so we redefine the
limit. So now I can reach the new peak, but only if I buy a merit and put
a line in my BG about how Atsuro put in a lot of time at the dojo when he
was nine. And more importantly, nobody can ever catch up to him unless
they come from the right clan or /also/ put in a lot of time at the dojo
prior to whatever point they leave CG at. Even if I roleplay Atsuro as
being lazy and never training and the other person does nothing but
practice. Even if Atsuro put in his time at the dojo for two months when
he was 17 and was created at 18, and the other 18 year old character has
been doing nothing but train for the past three years which were actually
RPed out.
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/21 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Caps and Engame May 06 2013 Valkyrie

I can understand the desire of people who are reaching the top of their
abilities - 10s in their stats and S rank jutsu - to still have paths for
their characters to grow, and not be faced with having to become a
generalist for the only path of being able to spend their points. However,
I don't think allowing stats to be raised above 10 is the way to go about
doing it. I do welcome ideas for other potential things that might be
offered as 'end game' abilities, though.
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/22 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Stat Cap May 06 2013 Fudo

Speaking as someone who has had 10's, 2's, 7's, 5's, and everything else
multiple times, The stats do need to be accounted for and charted
potentially as far as how they will change the roll system to see if it
will truly make the highest level completely out of whack with the mid
level and up. However, that one stat difference generally won't do too
much harm in that regard, and I will note it is not about the end, it is
about the begining that this whole idea works. It is choices in CG
mattering beyond the very first week or two of a characters life. Because
right now, they simply do not. Min maxing gives an early advantage that
helps get to max quicker for often times literally no draw backs. Choosing
to be conservative has absolutely no benefit ever. And …. well i guess
if you put yourself more negative than positive in CG, then you start as a
minor disadvantage that once again in the end, doesn't matter. The benefit
who will benefit the most from this, are those who think about how there
character is before they hit the grid and what they will become in the end
(in general). This change has nothing to do with how fast you grow, nor if
you are pwoerful already really other than you are closer to it.
Thinking that changing the CG to actually have a purpose beyond the
first week of play is going to become a treadmill is an interesting
perspective. This is not some arbitrary addative to the end game. It is
about the core of the creation of your character and the choices you made
then. It isn't just a "let's allow people to have more (or less) stats
because we are tired of having low stats. It is an idea for clan
balancing, and character balancing that benefits non clanned as well as
clanned characters depending on which ones they are (some more than
others). It is another way of incentivising the choices you make upon
creation. It does effect the future, but only in relation to the past.
Merits and flaws aren't suppossed to be about "I trained hard when I was
3 years old, so now that i'm 6 and a student, i have more pow and spd than
others". Merits and flaws are suppossed to represent natural inclinations
and talents such as "I'm 7'0" tall and 300 lbs… i tend to be stronger
than other people, and i also endure quite well." It isn't suppossed to be
training. No matter how much you train, you won't be 7'0" unless your
character is. YOu /might/ not even bee a muscular person, no matter how
hard you train, or even if you are, not as naturally so as Tallie over
there. You also may not be someone who ignores pain well or has the
mentality to drive forward no matter what (Not everyone can be Rock Lee
just because they train hard. It was his Merits that alowed that, and his
Flaws being in ninjutsu and genjutsu).
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/23 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Stat Cap May 06 2013 Satomi

I defend my title of most frequent poster

Anyways, Fudo, the same can be achieved by limiting total earnable stat
points to 72. Everyone will be better at a certain something in the end.
Just up a tier in the end so the xp costs are the same and hence
progression stays the same! :)
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/24 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Stealth attack May 06 2013 Satomi

You are stealthed, attack tricky or powerful?

Simple suggestion. Add a 'stealthed' status to +order. If someone's
stealthed their first attack from stealth can always be defended against.
But it can be modded. The player can choose tricky or powerful (or
normal). Tricky means rp'ly the stealth is used to improve hit chance
(suprise) … powerful means stealth was used to prepare a stronger attack
(or an unseen attack hits harder) and normal .. is just normal. I think
this would add a cool spicy demanic to stealth (and use) without making it
overpowered. Since people can still defend against it! It would simply be
+attack physical=Kefka … syntax: Do you wish normal, tricky or powerful?

Powerful - Satomi attacks Kefka with a powerful physical from stealth!

Let me know what you guys think ^.^
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/25 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Mission Log May 08 2013 Nori

I love running missions. The only draw-back I see right now is that my
missions don't really have an effect on the rest of the village
(especially when others should probably be reacting to them too). So what
exactly is my point?

My point is that there should be a Mission Log database where we place
short summaries of the missions. That way others can inquire about a
mission someone else ran, maybe work other ideas off it, or just know what
we should be reacting to. I know we have the wiki and bb's…but a
missions office would be good.
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/26 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Combat Copy Jutsu May 09 2013 Fudo

First, i'd like to give credit to Shirayuki on Bleach for giving me the
idea as to how this could possible work here.

Now, we have always had an issue with mid combat copying of Sharingan.
How to make it fair, how to make it not bloat the combat system, etc. The
proposal is sort of a compromise that won't add a lot of bloat, and most
certainly will not be heavily advantacious to the Uchiha even though it is
exclusive to them while requiring no coding, but possibly a bit large
scale minor skill revision (Which sort of needs to be done any way
considering lingering damage types from mods that no longer exist)

The idea is basically this, a new damage type called "Copy". Has no
benefits, and /all/ jutsu can defend against it. This does mean that
people will have to pay attention as to whether they are getting
genjtusu'd or not but over all it shouldn't have any other mechanics
versus RP hiccups. Now, this is applied to all of the copy jutsu when they
are created. The only exception would be defenses, which we will just have
to say are versatile. Copy Jutsu will not have mods. So while they ICly do
the same things, they OOCly are going to be generally inferior. This is
for balance. Yes you can copy anything in combat, but you cannot perfect
it the same time. Perfecting it, is actually purchasing it. The buy in for
these and progression I personally think should go something like this:

Sharingan I: (yes it would have to be allowed to copy first) Tai + Int E
Rank Attack and Defense, D Rank Attack and Defense

Sharingan II: Tai + Int C/B rank Attack and Defense, Nin + Int E/D/C Rank
Attack and Defense

Sharingan III: Tai + Int A rank Attack and Defense, Nin + Int B/A rank
Attack and Defense, Gen + Int D/C/B rank Attack and Defense

Sharingan Specialization: Tai + Int S rank Attack and Defense, Nin + Int
S rank Attack and Defense, Gen + Int A/S Rank Attack and Defense.

Alternatively, the cap (because i can see where being able to on the fly
copy A and S rank Jutsu may get over powered, possibly, even without mods)
could be B rank instead of S rank. However, i suggest looking at that
alternative after calculating modless A and S rank effectiveness. I also
suggest if possible that all elements and combination have an edge over
copied jutsu, but it having no advantage or disadvantage may be enough.
For those counting, this would be a total of (E - S) 34 jutsu that cover
all possibility of all copyable things at all ranks. If it is reduced down
to B Rank for mid battle copy, the total becomes 24 instead. So there will
be quite a few in either case. The only other solution i have for this, is
to make them all based off of Nin + Int, as a function of using the
Sharingan more so than using the skills of the jutsu itself. This goes
against canon, and is a bit unbalanced due to stat focusing, but it wuld
minimize bloat to either 12 (E-S) or 8 (E-B).
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/27 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Mission Log May 09 2013 Nunchuk

There's actually a fairly simple solution to this problem, Nori: post
your mission summaries on your Village's board (+bbread 16 for
Konohagakure). I know you mentioned the boards in your post, but this is
pretty much exactly what they're for: to keep other Villagers up to date
as to what's happening in a particular Village.

In fact, if I may make the suggestion to all that they more regularly
post their mission summaries on the boards, it would greatly improve the
scope and possibility of Village interactions.

-Nunchuk
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/28 (timeout warning) Posted Author
+finger mail May 09 2013 Taiki

Just a thought… the unread mail attribute appears to be broken. When I
+finger people with unread mail, all I get is "Mail: PERMISSION Unread —
#-1 ARGUMENTS MUST BE NUMBERS". Might want to look into fixing that…
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/29 (timeout warning) Posted Author
RE: +finger mail May 09 2013 Satomi

They're aware. They broke it to solve a security issue and Valk is working
on a fix.
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/30 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: +finger mail May 09 2013 Kefka

This is something code staff is already looking at. Thanks for the heads
up, though.
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/31 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Genjutsu nerf/buff May 10 2013 Satomi

So in the light of recent discussions. I just came up with something.

Isn't it possible to make the stamina drain rollable instead of a set
amount? That would be considered a nerf. Even if the max gets put above
what's currently drainable. However!!!

In addition to this change, make it so a self inflict matches 50% of
the damage that would have been done in the gen. With potent genjutsu
being an exception. Meaning that if I would drain 500 stamina, a self
inflict would do 250 damage if succesful, and 100 if not. RP'ly this would
be correct since, the stronger the gen, the more pain is neccasery to snap
out. Self inflict II would mean you only receive 25% of the 'would be
drain' in damage.

This means that there's a significant drawback to constantly spamming
self-inflict on yourself to snap out of genjutsu's. Since the 100 damage
currently is nothing but a nuisance. I don't know how the high number
would end up. But feel free to tweak ranges so that it's not overpowered.

Or even cap self inflict at 500 damage. Whichever solution is came up
with, it might be interesting to look at to give genjutsu that slight
push, in cohesion with making chakra drain and limited DR available. And I
think you have drawn genjutsu effectively up to where it's supposed to be.
Again, I don't know the exact numbers so feel free to tweak so it's not
overpowered.

Note: Not a rant nor complaint, just idle brainstorm.
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Message: 10/32 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Genjutsu accuracy May 12 2013 Satomi

*WARNING, THIS SUGGESTION WILL CONTAIN PRE-SHIPPUDEN SPOILERS!*

Before I can make this suggestion it's important to realize why it's
made. After hearing the balancing philosophy of the skill staff I got to
thinking about things. And first and foremost. I realized things are
pretty balanced. Some disciplines are more diversely applicable than
others (such as ninjutsu). But the explenation was that ninjutsu was also
diverse in cannon and hence staff tries to find that sweet spot between
cannon and balance.

Having said that, I took a good look at the anime and manga. Especially
in early episodes, being struck by a genjutsu required two steps to defend
against it. Step 1: Recognice it's a genjutsu. Step 2: Dispell the
genjutsu. In our currently balance, step one is omitted, which causes for
a very odd (and in my opinion, boring) application of genjutsu. Before I
continue I would like to proof my claim. In the following screenshots you
can see Naruto during the chuunin exams, where Kabuto cast a mass sleep
genjutsu. The leaf jounin all recogniced it and used kai. But the genin
had no clue what was going on. And were all knocked out, yes … even the
amazingly powerful Naruto. Sakura however is naturally good at genjutsu,
and hence recogniced it and dispelled it.

Example: http://puu.sh/2RW3r.jpg
http://puu.sh/2RW4M.jpg
However, if the ninja could recognice the genjutsu, it could be
dispelled! http://puu.sh/2RW6g.jpg

Okay, so we have established that there's 2 steps to getting rid of
genjutsu. One of which is knowledge of genjutsu! (with us, represented by
the genjutsu stat). Intelligence isn't neccarily knowledge of genjutsu.
Next to Naruto lies Shikamaru, who just as easily was knocked out. I don't
want to suggest something that makes it harder to defend againt genjutsu.
Nor do I want to suggest any code additions. Instead, a set of rules and
acknowledged understanding of genjutsu (added to then news files) that
allow combat to be closer to cannon.

Issue 1) Self inflict does not roll on genjutsu. Hence, how does the
taijutsu-ist perceive they are struck by one?

Issue 2) Self inflict always damages, even on a fail. Which automatically
assumed knowledge of the genjutsu. While if self inflict has to be used,
one can assume that the taijutsu-ist has a low genjutsu stat. This results
in mild powerposing (subconcsious)… an example I had recently was
hitting 'serious wounds' on someone, and roleplaying cutting their finger
off during a spar. The reaction was 'meh it's a genjutsu' while the
defense failed. Instead of: OMG WTF ITS A SPAR YOU A**HOLE!

3) The perception can - always - be assumed, even on failed genjutsu
defenses. There's no rule against it. While in the world of ninja where
people puke fireballs and shit laserbeams, most currently existing gen
isn't that much 'out there' to immediatly recognice it's a genjutsu.

Solution to 1) This is a two part solution. And both work seperatly.
But not together. However, the second solution is FAR better. Solution 1,
make self inflict roll on gen+something. Which means that the ability of
being able to perceive the genjutsu is automatically included in the roll.
Since, if you don't know it's a genjutus, why in the world would you stab
yourself!? This however also means that a rule needs to be included that
unless the defense is a succes, the defender DOES NOT KNOW they are stuck
in a genjutsu. So 3 failed defenses means everything is REAL to the
defender, unless rp'ly it makes sense to know it's a genjutsu.

This however is not ideal, since self inflict always damages. More ideal
would be a rule that the genjutsu must first be perceived. This again
consists out of two parts. Part one is forcing a +rpdefend genjutsu
perception at the start of a defense round. Before the defenses. If the
perception roll is higher than any of a particular genjutsu then the
genjutsu is 'perceived' and the use of 'self inflict' unlocked. Which
means that for defenses, if the genjutsu is perceived
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Message: 10/33 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Genjutsu accuracy P.2 May 12 2013 Satomi

*WARNING, THIS SUGGESTION WILL CONTAIN PRE-SHIPPUDEN SPOILERS!*

(aka, the lowest genjutsu roll is beaten by the genjutsu perception
roll) the defender may use self inflict. Part two is for genjutsuists
themselves. Changing genjutsu perception its description to 'perceiving a
genjutsu, and using kai if it's a succes' This means that genjutsu-ists
STILL HAVE TO USE +RPDEFEND GENJUTSU PERCEPTION to beat the lowest roll of
the opponent before they can defend against the genjutsu. But afterwards
they can use genjutsu perception as a coded defense (taijutsu-ists could
also) (+defend) against all genjutsu attack rolls. And simply roleplay it
as using 'kai' if a genjutsu is perceived for each genjutsu seperately. If
the defense roll the kai wasn't a succes and the chakra not dispelled.

Now I know this was a lot of text so this warrents an example:
Genjutsu-ist 1 vs taijutsuist 1

Genjutsu-ist attacks with hell viewing technique 15
Genjutsu-ist attacks with hell viewing technique 20
Genjutsu-ist attacks with hell viewing technique 25

Taijutsu-ist RPdefends with genjutsu perception 21
Taijutsuist defends against hell viewing technique with self inflict 15
Taijutsuist defends against hell viewing technique with self inflict 16
Taijutsuist defends against hell viewing technique with self inflict 21

Everything is the same, you just force a perception roll before self
inflict. Which means you can keep tai + stam as rollers on that defense.
This also means you can make ninjutsu defenses rolling on nin + int or
nin+seal. Since it would be based on the same system. Under this same
solution I recommend removing genjutsu kai as a defense (it's outdated
anyways) and instead call it 'genjutsu perception II' and III … to get
these skills you DON"T need other genjutsu. You can simply get perception
I and then II and then III under normal xp costs without skill
requirements other than the former. Yes it means people need to invest
some, and with a low gen stat you'll be just as screwed as Naruto and
Jiraya were against genjutsu. But that's a decision you made for your
character.

Solution to issue 2) This is automatically solved by my perception then
defend solution 1. Since you would only self inflict if you perceived a
genjutsu. And hence stabbing yourself makes sense and can be roleplayed.
Even if the defense fails (if you roll lower, just RP the pain wasn't
enough to snap you out…) But the damage is roleplayed and MAKES SENSE!

Solution 3) A rule needs to be added which states that unless it makes
RP sense to know it's a genjutsu, or the gen is specifically perceived.
That the defender doesn't know they're in a genjutsu and they have to
roleplay accordingly. Aka, getting your finger cut off HURTS!

As a final note. This is working completely on the currently
established system. Gen defenses don't get changed. It just drags the
combat miles closer to cannon while not making genjutsu much stronger.
Especially since getting a B rank defense in gen is a 16xp investment and
that can be used to perceive most genjutsu. Even with a low gen stat.
Nothing really changed, it only makes more sense. And it's completely
according to the balancing philosophy of the staff. Curious to hear what
you guys think!

- Satomi
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Message: 10/34 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Genjutsu accurary supplement May 12 2013 Satomi

The following points were made in public chat.

1) It's extra recourse costs.
2) This is the link system.
3) What if I do not perceive the genjutsu?
4) Gen kai is a stun breaker 5) If you're better than a student you know
it's a genjutsu.
6) There's plenty of examples of people dispelling and finding out it's a
genjutsu
7) Most importantly. The argument was made, this way genjutsu will be
godly strong.

1) Yes it's extra recourses. I agree, I propose either decreasing gen
perception costs, or make a command which doesn't expand recourses to RP
roll. Either that or help me to bypass this minor issue.

2) This is NOT the link system. I repeat - not - the link system. There
were many issues flaws and limitations in the link system. I know because
I spent time understanding it. This is miles away from the link system. So
don't use that as an excuse not to look at a perfectly sound suggestion.

3) If you don't perceive the genjutsu it only makes sense to defend
against it as if it were real. Tense things, dodge others. Heck, use your
S-rank defense if it's really scary!

4) Okay, gen kai will stay and gen perception II and III will simply be
added. Solved.

5) This one is not true. Jiraya (a freaking sage) was a useless while
fighting genjutsu. Another example would be… seeing a wall of skelletons
running at you makes a genin go… OSHIT THIS CANT BE REAL MUST BE A
GEN… while a Kage could think…. oh what a bother, not again!? …
having no clue that it's a gen!

As a mentalist I can say. I have deceived countless people into thinking
I'm a mindreader. I'm born with a tongue that can spew words which makes
people fall asleep (hypnosis) and do anything I like…. I can bend spoons
with my mind and have been kicked out of the synagogue for doing a magic
trick which mixed mind reading with mutilation. I can stop my own
heartbeat… or at least, to others.

6) Yes, but at least they had a hunch that it's genjutsu. Perception roll
still applies. If you suddenly get stabbing wounds and someone's standing
in front of you with a kunai. Would you without realizing it might be a
gen (perception roll) stab yourself just to check?

7) To counter this, I'm making a slight change to the rules. To get a
POTENTIAL HUNCH (roleplay accordingly) that something is a gen. 75% of the
roll must be met by the genjutsu perception RPdefend. To fully defend
agaisnt it as a genjutsu-ist (aka, kai) the full roll must be met. This
takes the god out, at a relatively small investment of XP you can already
perceive most genjutsu. So if Keppeku rolls 40, 45 and 50 I need to hit a
30 on my rpdefend to get a hunch that genjutsu is used against me.

However, if all the following defenses FAIL, you are FORCED to think,
hmm.. maybe not a genjutsu? And the perception must be rolled again the
next turn. I just ran calculations based off aproximations. This means
that to defend against a favorably statted S-rank… I just need
perception III while being badly statted (int and gen on 5 vs int and gen
on 10) … because my average roll would be 55 and my mark would be 52,2
… based on average rolls. So 75% is a good mark to set for this. But
ofcourse staff have the actual numbers.
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Message: 10/35 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Appendix 10/9 May 13 2013 Satomi

If this plot will be ran. Someone should one of these:
http://puu.sh/2SWTZ.png' every single day. 'Until the plot is over'

'Behind it is simple math which obviously will be kept a secret from
anyone who could get involved' Basically, we're going to give everyone in
power the ability to @mail 1 thing per day to a central account. Who
collects all the info and makes a summary of things of that day.' 'And
everything they do gets recorded and may or may not have consequences'
'including indicision'
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Message: 10/36 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Genjutsu accuracy -> Option II May 14 2013 Satomi

Valk and I discussed my suggestion in detail. There's still a couple of
issues. So we came up with the following:

1) Issue: If I genjutsu with something and someone uses self inflict and
it's a succes. They can roleplay perceiving the genjutsu, knowing
something is off, and snapping out of it. That's fine.

However, if the self inflict rolls lower, people will - always - know
something is off in the current system, just not hurt themselves enough to
snap out of it.

OR they roleplay not roleplay hurting themselves but get damaged
regardless. Both of these situations are bad. The last one is a nuisance
but less bad. The first one however is something that nullifies the point
of genjutsu.

1) solution: If self inflict fails… A RULE will be present which says
you CAN NOT roleplay knowing you're struck by genjutsu. And instead of
taking 100hp it takes 300 stamina extra.

And it should be rp'd accordingly. That way, if self inflict = succes,
then gen = perceived and defended against.
If not, then the effort to try and figure our gen or not will cost 300
stam and the defender has - no clue - they are hit by a genjutsu. Unless
RP dictates otherwise.
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Message: 10/37 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Gen-info May 19 2013 Nori

I know staff has discussed +news gen-info, which at the moment is blank,
but at some point in time will have details surrounding just how to use
Genjutsu in an information-gathering mode.

I offer up one mechanic to do so, and would like to get feedback. First,
in order to interrogate someone, they have to be held in place somehow. I
would suggest that a new skill-mod: Interrogate be made. Interrogate would
act as a sort of Round Stun. If the attack using Interrogate hits, neither
the attacker or the target can attack or be attacked. I.E. if someone is
in an interrogation and they are hit by someone on the outside, then the
interrogation is stopped. If someone is inside an interrogation as the
victim, then they are too busy defending their secrets to attack. If the
attacker attacks or is hit, like-wise, the interrogation is stopped.

Interrogations can be performed on all 3 jutsu types. The only two
necessities would be that the Interrogation was a B-Rank Mod (and no other
mods can be added), and that the mod acts like a round-stun effectively
holding the victim in place for a round while the interrogation takes
place.

Examples: Taijutsu Interrogation: A shadow clone holds the victim down
while the real attacker places senbon in uncomfortable locations and asks
questions. Ninjutsu Interrogation: The victim is sucked underground (like
in a mole technique), and then the earth around the victim squeezes around
them while the attacker asks questions. Ninjutsu Interrogation (special
case Telepathy): For those clans that can use Telepathy (and there are a
few more than just mine), mentally somehow the victim is held in place
(perhaps by turning off their motor skills) while a search is made within
the victim's mind. Genjutsu Interrogation: Like the Telepathy
method…Genjutsu traps the victim in their mind while a search is made
within the victim's mind.

The rolls would look like: A regular attack is made by the attacker (Tai,
Nin, Gen) and a regular defense is rolled by the victim (Tai, Nin, Gen).
If the Interrogation attack hits, then the victim is trapped. Next round
roll: +interrogation Stat=Victim (ex: +interrogation GEN=Nori). The Stat,
Tai, Nin, Gen would be based on the Interrogation attack used and it would
basically perform a +mroll Stat/Int of attacker (where Stat is again Tai,
Nin, Gen) vs. +mroll Stamina/Int of victim. Int is used because of the
intelligence being gathered/defended against, and stamina to see how long
they can withstand the assault.

If the victim wins the roll, the Interrogation is over and they can attack
that same round. If the defender wins the roll, then for a B rank
Interrogation attack, one question must be answered in the round (and only
one). For an A rank - 2, S rank - 3 in one round. The question must be
worded clearly or else the answer can be sneakily true…but not quite.
Example: Nori, where is your home? In Konohagakure. When in reality they
wanted to know: Nori, Where were you born? Kadomai.
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Message: 10/38 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Interrogation pt2 May 19 2013 Nori

Some good comments were brought up. Doing an interrogation mid-combat
should be difficult or next to impossible.

If it is a team fight, it would be because any attack directed at the
interrogater or interrogatee would stop it. If it is 1v1, I would either
say A) It is not possible during combat, but only after. B) It is possible
during combat, but if either the interrogation attack or the
+interrogation roll fails, then like Mind-Body-Switch, the attacker is
left prone. Not only is the victim able to fight back, but the attacker
has to take the first attack as a +tense.

Also, it was suggested that this might leave an indefinite interrogation
loop. I should have added that this only gives 1 round and 1 round only.
If the attack succeeds, 1 round gets you B rank - 1 question answered, A -
2, S - 3…but then the interrogation is over! If further questions are
needed, the process starts from the beginning. This makes doing this in
combat even more difficult!
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NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/39 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: +where May 21 2013 Valkyrie

Official Suggestion Response From The Staff Team

Changing the way that +where sorts so that all of a single country is
listed together is a good quality of life change, and we will look at
adding it to the list of changes to the MUSH. However, it may be some time
before such a change is implemented. Until that time, please note that
+where/local will list the people that are in the same major region that
you're currently located in ICly.
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Message: 10/40 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Just a Thought May 21 2013 Valkyrie