Suggestions board 2013-07-16 through 2013-09-07

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Message: 10/104 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Credit Where Credit is Due Jul 16 2013 Fudo

Thought it was time to make a break down post of the "XP issue" as it
Current System: You can earn up to 6 XP a week. 3 are earned by
gathering votes from peers. 2 votes = 1 XP. While you can earn as many
votes as you want, only 4 extra will carry over in to the next week,
making the effective maximum votes per week equal 10. This does not change
how much XP you earn a week through peer votes.
3 are gained from log submissions after the content is graded by
awarding only the best log out of all of the submissions. No matter how
many logs you send in, you will only recieve one grade, so the only
purpose of sending in multiple logs is to increase your chances of it
being recieved better by the log reviewer. This grading process is also
how you earn pvotes which is a 1 : 1 ratio with the XP earned by this
method. You may also earn pvotes up to a full PP for the month with
journal entries on the Wiki.

Suggested System: You can earn up to 6 XP a week. 3 are earned by
gathering votes from peers. 2 votes = 1 XP. There is no limit to the
amount of votes you can earn, only how much is converted in to XP weekly.
The effective maximum is based entirely on your effort and time to play.
In this way you keep what you earn without out gaining anyone simply due
to more play time.
The other half of your XP (3), is earned through log submissions. This
is cumulative, meaning instead of rooting through logs for the "best" one,
and grading that one on an individual basis above all others and tossing
the rest out, all logs are simply graded as they are and the total is kept
by the log staffer per alt. Every week, they deduct the amount of XP and
PP that is in the character's "account", to a minimum of 0. This means
that you will still only earn a possible 3 XP and 3 Pvotes a week to this
method. However, it also means that running 6 missions, 2 campaigns, 8
social scenes, and a Chuunin exam match won't net you 3 XP and 3 Pvotes
one week, and 0 next week because your net went out/hours at work
changed/vacation/death in the family/sickness/burn out/any other situation
where life interferes with playing a game/ or you simply were not able to
conjure as much awesome that week. In this way, you earn the same maximum
amount (3 Xp, 3 Pvotes) as you would in the current system, but you keep
what you earn. The extra Pvotes/PP from the wikia journals should remain
the same or even possibly be removed if it is seen as too much (but
keeping that incentive for pages may not be a bad idea even with that
consideration) within the revised system.

In my opinion, it is not and should not be about trying to beat each
other or not RPing for RPs sake, but in a game that is heavily coded and
heavily dictated by conflict usually settled by coded means earned with XP
and PP, it is not at all a trivial thing to lose (possibly) 50% or more of
your effort put in to that character and their progress simply because the
system and the log staff choose to forget it ever happened..
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Message: 10/105 (timeout warning) Posted Author
XP - Fudo Jul 16 2013 Satomi
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Message: 10/106 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Earning Jul 16 2013 Fudo

I suppose my question is how earning votes/pvotes is farming in the
first place. I also wonder why it is assumed that people will suddenly
start RPing like made, getting 50 scenes in a week or two and doing
missions and campaigns like crazy, and then just sit there as they let it
all roll in. While it is possible to do this, I would find it rather
unlikely aside from the most extreme type of abusers of a system, which
you have no matter what system you impliment.
In fact, I have seen people sit there and decide how much they will RP
based on the /limit/ more than anything else. And I don't think that the
minimum RP will stop due to people wanting to have their maximum rewards
in a week. The only thing that can possible occur, in one way or another,
is more RP. The only difference may be when it all occurs. Why it is a
problem that someone RPs like mad when they have the time and then
"coasts" when they don't I am not sure. I do not see any reason to "coast"
after working so hard unless you simply do not like RPing or playing here
in the first place and the only reason that you do is to watch numbers
What I see happening with a system that doesn't forget your effort, is
not some strange, top heavy RP frenzy and long vacations from every
player. What I see is people literally just playing to play, and getting
what they get, and no longer worrying about minimums as much or maximums
as much. What I see is pure RP where as rewards come, it's more like "Oh
cool, more votes/pvotes." than it is "Ok, so I have 8 votes this week,
which means I need 2 more scenes in order to get 10 and then I can start
planning to play my other alt who only have 4 votes. I really need to get
PP, which means I need to make sure I have a good mission in there some
where, but my other alt thankfully /might/ have a good enough log to get
at least 2 pvotes this week. And when I make my third alt… hmm… I need
to find the time to also get them in to at least 6 scenes If i want them
to get off to a fresh start and not fall behind next week when I have some
travel plans. The other two will at leasy have 4 votes for me to work
withso I can RP them at a lower level as long as I have at least 1 "good"
scene to log…." Etc. Does everyone think like this? No. Should they? No.
Is it beneficial to them if not necessary if they want their characters to
progress steadily? Absolutely currently.
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Message: 10/107 (timeout warning) Posted Author
XP Jul 16 2013 Shoki

In response to Fudo's posts I want to say a few things.

Yes, there is a cap. The reason for the cap, simply put is a few fold as
far as I know, and remember these are my words and not a unified voice of

One you should be active as much as you can week to week, so while some
carry over is helpful, it'd be better to not have complete carry over as
you could in theory earn dozens of votes in one week, and then do nothing
with that character for a few weeks or more and still be racking up the XP
while inactive.

Next every system I've ever seen on a much has had some kind of cap. Even
1.0 had a cap on the number of votes people had to spend. So while it
might have seemed like no cap, there was a cap in that people started to
run out of votes to give out. Mind you this had the added bonus of sort of
encouraging people to RP with different folks, not the same person each

Finally, I wouldn't be so opposed to Fudo's idea if perhaps, and this is
something I just sort of came up with so haven't run by anyone yet,
perhaps we cap the number of votes a person can give to you a week. So in
that case there might be no cap on votes but you could only get one vote a
week from each player/character max. This would encourage folks to RP with
others. Mind you code wise that might be a logistical nightmare so I'd
have to ask Val about that, but just a thought.

In anycase the current system has slowly been made 'faster' in 2.0 and
right now you can earn more XP and carry more votes over than at any point
in 2.0. So there is some concern that tweaking it further would only lead
to more issues with people reaching 'endgame' far too quickly. For there
really is a point you reach where you have hit some kind of end game as
our system is not open ended.

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Message: 10/108 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: XP Jul 16 2013 Fudo

To point one of Shoki's response: This is inconvinient for people who
have other things to do, which is also why the system has a cap. It is a
strange irony that the system is designed to help those who cannot be very
active week to week, is also something that interferes with people who
cannot be active week to week by making them have to plan out what they
have to do week to week here. Yes, in theory if this was lifted someone
could RP like mad, and then earn while being inactive. However, why is it
a bad thing that someone earns what they earned regardless of when they
were active? Why is it a better thing that their earnings are destroyed
codedly because they were too active? As long as they cannot surpass
someone who steadily, casually plays, there is no true benefit to mass
play then vacation aside from the peace of mind that you can do so when

To point two: Yes, in 1.0 people ran out of votes, thus it made it so
they had to RP with more people (Which was intentional to a degree). I
constantly ran out of votes to give after 2 weeks (votes were generally
refilled monthly back then) because of the amount of activity. However,
the counter balance was that people immediately got their rewards, and if
they were active enough with enough people, they could indeed jump ahead.
So while there was a cap, the cap was there to stop abuse (cliches and
small group play only), and had nothing to do with determining progress
beyond your own efforts. The reason for the cap per week in the current
system is also to stop abuse, but it is also to help casual players keep
up. This has nothing however to do with the extra systems designed to
mitigate the value and worth of effort down to the casual level and
nothing more. I personally do not recall there being a limit to overages
when 2.0 started, but I may be wrong. If there was however, that doesn't
mean it should remain just because it did before, like many other systems
do not.

To the third point: Since there is only one value to votes (1) per vote
action. Since there is a time limit to when you actually can vote again.
Since there is still going to be a weekly limit (unless you are suggesting
there no longer is this limit at least), and since it takes 2 votes per XP
having a 1 vote per person per week limit means that you would have to, at
minimum, play with 6 different people in a week in order to get the
current minimum XP, and those 6 different people would have to not have
voted for anyone else. The game would run out votes very quickly, and many
people will never see any due to that limit. Unless you are trying to say
they can some how only vote for /each/ person one time a week, but even
then that requires 6 individuals for the current XP maximum per week which
is harder to do in certain villages than others or just during dry spells
or odd hours.

As for the current system being faster because of the extra XP and
apparently there being more carry over votes and thus the fear that people
will suddenly progress too fast. Unless the expectation is that people
will not RP at least 6 times a week, then I do not see how that is an
issue for peer votes. For the suggestion of Pvotes, I can see how that
might increase gains a bit over what they are now, but that is due to the
system being innately nitpicky and, on the player end, entirely up to luck
as to what they actually earn.
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Message: 10/109 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re:Re:Votes Jul 17 2013 Soren

If I make a suggestion. It is my oppinion, that the system is ok as it
is, but it could be minorly improved. A while ago, someone posted a
suggestion, that I was quite fond of, for a small tweak to the system, but
removed the post, and I'm actually going to make that same suggestion
I'm going to suggest, don't change the maximum votes or the maximum XP,
but possibly to allowing one 'free XP' per week. The way this would
function. People would have the a bility to get upto 10 votes per week,
the same as now, but at the end of the week, only 4 votes would be cashed
in (2 votes/xp) giving them one more XP per week as a freebie. This has 3
primary effects. First off, it expands the reserves of which a player can
build up, if say, they can't RP here for a week, because their computer
exploded, or because they've just started a new semester in school and
their schedule is chaotic, or what have you. Secondly, it allows for
players who aren't able to RP for quite some time (Latest case in point,
Amiko) to not be so left behind after they come back, having some ability
to come back from it, despite the trauma and drauma of life. Third, it
would allow for people to have more ability to start working on, and
reliably playing extra alts (something that a good many of us would love
to do, but couldn't simply because of weekly time constraints.)
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Message: 10/110 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Votes Soren Jul 17 2013 Fudo

An interesting idea, but I do have a few questions.

Essentially, the cap remains the same, but people end up getting a free
XP per week due to "off screen growth". So the idea is that they are
keeping some sort of pace innately. This does make since from an IC
perspective, actual play of the characters being more than a base
However, this solution does not account for losses due to the system
throwing out earnings. So while it helps people keep pace whether they do
anything or not, it does not at all handle one of the other major issues,
which is effort and time being wasted due to being here and playing. I do
not disagree with the concepts behind the idea itself beyond the fact that
it is not all inclusive.
While it could be useful to come back after 2 months without a computer
to having 11 more xp (8 weeks worth + 6 residual), The same could have
occured in the suggested system if over time the player had an extra 22
votes stored up due to regular play (Which would occur in a variable way
based on play time). Since no one can predict accidents/occurances that
would keep them away, the residual XP system could certainly be used. In
fact, it could be used in tandem with the new idea, if you ran entirely
out of earned XP. I'm not sure if that is too much to add, but it would
serve the same purpose, without negating the effort of those who can play
like the current system does after a certain point.
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Message: 10/111 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re:Votes Again Jul 17 2013 Soren

You see, to some extent I both agree and dissagree with the unlimited
rollover votes. A while ago, I would've agreed with you, but for the time
being, I do think there should be atleast some sort of cap on vote
rollover. Simply put, the cap is there to make sure as people have said,
there isn't a case of -mad vote gain- followed by a period of vacation.
I'm all for someone having a week, maybe two of buffer where they might
not be able to RP for a while nearly as much, heck that'd be wonderfull
for me sometimes, but I do think that the vote rollover needs to be capped
atleast somewhat. Maybe expanding that cap could be in order? (But hey,
guess what my suggestion did!) Otherwise, I don't think it's a problem.
I don't particularly care about the cap, personally. If I go over, then
meh, I go over. If not, then meh, I don't care, I enjoy the RP. I
personally feel like anyone who thinks of the cap as limiting, is just
trying to make a tweakable system. Because if you enjoy the RP, then you
shouldn't neccessarily care. You would be coming back and RPing more
-anyway- regardless of the cap. For individuals who don't care for the RP,
and are just trying to tweak the system, the cap still makes it neccessary
to come back and RP on a regular basis, without causing any magor hiccups
for those who come solely for the RP.
Now I can understand that you don't want the RP to go unrewarded, and I
agree with that. I do. But I feel like we already do have asystem to
reward that good RP in place in the form of the log system.
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Message: 10/112 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Soren Jul 18 2013 Fudo

Even if there is a mad vote gain and then vacation for some strange
reason, why is that anyone elses business but that player? Not that I am
in favor of people doing it, but what difference does it make to you and
your RP if someone wants to explode with RP for two weeks and then take a
break for two weeks? It does not hinder what anyone else does. It does not
push them ahead of anyone else. All it does it trickle in what they earned
during their active times and nothing more.
No. Thinking of the cap as limiting does not make ther person who thinks
of it that way someone who simply wants a tweakable system. Thinking of
the cap as limiting, is understanding that the cap is limiting. That is
what cap means. A limit. It is, by fact of the very definition of the word
that defines it, a limit. Understanding and expressing that this factual
limit is limiting in ways that are detrimental to some but perhaps not
others and offering suggestions to allow for the most benefit for everyone
with the least side effects to anyone (idealy) is not trying to tweak the
system. Trying to tweak the system, is trying to find a way where you come
out ahead of others by doing something that either you are more equipped
to do (such as gaining more experience simply because you have more time
than they do), or by allowing for loop holes to be exploited in a way that
others have to follow or lose out on (such as creating a system that has
many more avenues to gain XP or PP that require an abnormal amount of
effort to achieve it).
The log system, which I helped to create, was actually the one thing
designed to help people stand out /above and beyond/ others. It was the
other half of your XP. It still is. The peer vote system however, has
nothing to do with the log system. It literally is entirelly seperate,
aside from the fact that you are likely to get 1 peer vote from the scene
that also gives you all of or some of your XP/Pvote award. However, both
systems are limited in credit given because both systems are set up with
huge eliminatiing factors intrinsically (now, more than I recall) simply
because of the fear of either rapid growth, or the fear that some people
will magically start actually RPing, a whole lot, and then because they
obviously had no fun RPing here and just like watching numbers trickle
down, sitting around and waiting for their still entirely capped exactly
the same as before XP. It's like fearing that a dog that you train to
interact with people is going to bite someone simply because it still has
teeth regardless of every amount of evidence showing the exact opposite
behavior. And beyond that, even /if/ some one does actually do this
massive RP whoring extravaganza and then takes a break…. why is this
horrible again? People do this /any way/ right now…. they just don't
actually get credit for it. People have always done it, and always will as
people do other things than play this game, or burn out, or what have you.
That does not make their effort and time any less meaningful. It does not
make them tweaker, manipulators, cheaters, or lazy either. They simply
play differently than you do. They should not be mechanically punished for
that, in my opinion. They aren't rewarded more in this suggestion, they
are simply rewarded what they earned under the rules of how everyone earns.
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Message: 10/113 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Soren 2 Jul 18 2013 Fudo

However, for those of you that want to push the "100 percent pro RP, who
cares about XP and PP" arguement, I would like for you to attempt one or
both of the following experiments:

Experiment 1: Do not spend any of your XP or PP for 2 months and do not
apply for stats. Just ignore that you have it. And while doing so, try to
protray that you are progressing and making strives towards becoming a
better shinobi. Be sure to prove this when the scenes actually lead to
that point. Through RP alone, provide all of the evidence within this MUSH
that you have indeed grown. It isn't impossible. Really, all you have to
do is show personal growth beyond statistical, jutsu, or styles. All you
have to do, is prove that you becoming a better person is equvilant to you
becoming a better shinobi in this world and in this system, to your
village. It is only 2 months, so take the challenge and tell me how that
turns out for you. And yes, I have done something similar in the past, but
only for a single month and in an entirely different progression system

Experiment 2: Create a 20+ year old student who is well versed in
philosophy, warfare, tactis, strategy, economics, and even understands the
shinobi world and their jutsu. Have them be a proven leader within their
village for some time, and have them have a background of being the best
and brightest for a civilian (Which does all equate to about 2's, maybe a
3 or so in stats mind you based on how we consider villagers versus
shinobi). Join a village, and then ask them to become a Jounin. Of course
they will say no as you are a new person in the vilalge likely. Ok, then
spend the next 4 months playing that character as the best and brighest
leader you possibly can. Because Jounin is just a rank, and being capable
as it doesn't have to mean power right? Your RP should provide enough for
them to consider you seriously, and rank you up to high level leadership
alone correct, because XP and PP don't matter. All that matters is RP.
Whom ever takes this challenge, I want you to tell everyone of your
ascention to this rank through pure RP, because i guarantee you, you will
be the first person to ever have done it.

Why is this? Because despite what people try to say when they shrug of
XP and PP and say "it is just about the RP", this game was literally,
mathematically figured out for character growth with the Xp and PP system.
This game is /not/ just about the RP. To it's core and every function and
possibility within it, Xp and PP are at the root of it. It is designed
that way on purpose, and always has been. This is why RP /rewards/ you.
This is why you gain every single piece of your progress in this game
/through/ RP /as/ XP and PP. XP and PP, are quite literally, the
representation /of/ your RP. It is not seperate from it. It is not
something added on simply to incentivize people. It is there to allow you
as a player to represent your character and their journey. It does not
/replace/ this journey in any way. It is the culmination of it, the
essence of it gifted back to you as both reward and thanks for your time
and effort for participating in this world. So please… stop using the "I
just RP for RP's sake" arguement as a shield bash in to other people's
faces. If you just RP for RP's sake and don't care about XP and PP, that's
great. Do as you wish. That doesn't change the reality of the game
however. Just as you are free not to care, others are free to care about
it as it is part of this game's entire concept and design.
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Message: 10/114 (timeout warning) Posted Author
XP solution Jul 24 2013 Satomi

Hi, so as people who read this board and board 1 know, the decision to
increase vote cap by 2 has been made. As a reaction to the suggestion to
remove it entirely. A fairly solid argument was made in favor of this
decision by Valkerie:

<Chat> Valkyrie says, "Simply put, I've been on a MUSH with unbounded
stored xp, and it lead to what can best be described as a sine wave of
activity by a signficant enough percentage of the player base to lead to
the collapse of factions. While this game's player base and that game's
player base are completely different players, I have seen sine waves of
activity with players on this MUSH based entirely on vote reward. My prime
concern is the following: I track our MUSH's activity over time, number of
characters logged in, number of real different players logged in, and so
on. What these figures show is that, aside from some steady 'active
hours', our actually day to day and week to week figures do a lot of
bouncing. This bounce makes me very nervous about doing something like
this - if it does have the negative effect that I fear, by the time that
the negative effect is enough to show up in hard numbers in a trackable
way, the damage will have been done"

I had several counter arguments to that. But my most important one is
the following: Trying to increase activity by punishing players is - not -
the way to go. Instead, rewarding players to login every day IS much
better! I confronted staff with this, and I have been told 'things like'
RP challenges serve that purpose. Unfortunatly it's not effective at its
job at all.

So first of all I need your help. By doing the following:

Finish this sentence: By logging in each week, players get rewarded with:
(what you think players should be rewarded with)

@mail that to me and I'll make a single post will all the suggestions.

That said, I thought of a reward system myself that can replace the
current xp system cap. It's the following: There is no vote cap.

Off to a simple start :)

Instead, for every unique week you login, you can gain certain rewards.
The problem is, people will login, and then log out right? Well I can
solve that too!

For every 2 votes in a unique week, someone gets X
For every 4 votes someone gets Y
For every 6 votes, someone gets Z
for every 8 votes, someone gets B, For every 10 votes, someone gets A

These variables can be anything (and thus why I challenged the players
with coming up with these rewards.) Even if it means new coding. I
personally am in favor of some sort of fluff-based 'hobby' system which
means that logging in every week means your character gets better at
something like 'business, playing certain intruments or hunting' and while
codewise and in combat they don't assist you in any way to get an edge
over other players, RP and taste-wise it's very much present! Anyways, I'm
looking foreward to your responses. Hopefully we can replace the cap with
this, to motivate players to login every unique week.

I also propose a second alternative. Make removing the votecap possible
for 2 weeks every 6 months. Which means that when I know I can be very
active I can lift off the cap with some command. And it gets lifted for 1
week. Unrevertable. Which means that I can accumulate votes (which stay in
some seperate pool) for when I go on holiday. This is not ideal but still
might be a little but more viable than what we currently have. Still it
also has a lot of negative side-effects.
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Message: 10/115 (timeout warning) Posted Author
XP Jul 24 2013 Shoki

Okay, just to put this simply and to make it clear, this is my opinion
only but… Here goes:

XP is a reward. Failure to get XP is not a punishment. If you miss out on
a few weeks rewards, that is not a punishment. Everyone has times they
can't RP, it happens. This means everyone has gaps here and there. It is
not a race to see who can max out their stats and abilities first. If you
want that, perhaps a mud might be a better venue? That is not intended as
an insult by the way as I know it could be read as such but the focus of
this mush is RP, not XP.

XP is one reward of Rping but it is not the only reward. Having fun,
building friendships, enjoying the story, these are the rewards when
you've hit your cap, and even when you haven't! The XP is just sort of
icing that helps you measure some kind of advancement. Do we reward people
for being more active? Sure, a bit. But we have a cap on XP per week so
that no one can go crazy on XP and mash everyone as that simply isn't fun
for the rest of the mush.

Having a cap on the per week votes that carry over? Well, simply put I
don't see the problem here. As it is now, you can get to 12 votes, and
have 6 carry over to the next week, a full week of XP there. If you don't
log in the following week you miss out on up to 3 XP from votes. That's
less than one D-Rank, to put things in perspective.

So while I know some would like no cap or complex variations to allow some
carry over for vacations or RL issues or what not, as far as I can tell
the staff is pretty happy with how things are right now. We'll continue to
keep an eye on it, we always do that. But for now 12 seems like a good

I ask that you respect the fact that the staff discussed this issue, took
it all into consideration and decided on this. Once we decide something it
really isn't good to try to continue to argue a point. You may have the
best of intentions but understand that staff hardly ever makes rash
decisions and always tends to /over/ discuss issues before we make a
decision. I have never been staff on a mush where /so much/ discussion
goes on before anything is implimented!! So… yeah. I understand various
people's points but for now the 12 votes is where we are.

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Message: 10/116 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Mangekyou Jul 25 2013 Fudo

The first thing I want to say about this, is that it is extremely likely
that no one here ever really found out what Mangekyou was suppossed to be.
The Mangekyou that was removed from the game, was a heavy alteration that
changed lots of mechanical and descriptive details as well as themes that
ended up being considered too much for the game to handle well. What I am
going to be posting, is a slightly modified (as things have changed since
Beta), version of the original write up for Mangekyou.

Mangekyou is canonical, so it comes with some expectations attached.
These expectations boil down to 3 Mangekyou general abilities (Susanoo,
Amaterasu, Tsukoyomi), and 1 original ability (Kamui, Memory Alteration,
etc). There are some specific jutsu that are forbidden because they are
highly self destructive while being exceedinly powerful. We will not be
using those, just as we don't with any other clan or jutsu in this game.
So using these 4 things, I will break them down in to their individual
components in order to represent my case that I beleive Mangekyou can be
reestablished in a balanced way that does not at all trump everyone else,
nor is it undepowered to such a degree that it is useless.

Susanoo: This is one of the most difficult to concieve due to just what
it is… essentially a gigantic chakra monster that envelopes you and
seemingly passively protects you from almost all harm and has great
destructive power. So the question is, what in this game is similar to
this concept? The answer, is transformations combined with jutsu in a
style. The transformation represents the passive nature of this (it boosts
your character in an activated, but passive way). The style and jutsu
represent, within the code, the abilities that are used to defend and
attack. There is no need to make them better than anyone elses, as this
game already is a high damage to HP ratio game. Just have the jutsu to
back it up, and you'll be doing the same relative damage essentially. How
can this work and still be unique and fun for Uchiha instead of just an XP
sink? All for Susanoo transformations to be customizable. Sharingan is not
customizable. It is set stats that are determined before you ever invest.
In this case, Susanoo can be personalized, which is very much like the
series. It may thematically be about the chakra monster, but it is still
also very much about the Uchiha who wields it. There are two ways to do
this… a regular C to S rank transformation series, or a C+ to S rank
transformation series. The second option gives it a slight advantage to
those in between ranks, but it never caps out above anyone else in either

Proposed Susanoo Gains: Clan based Custom Transes, Uchiha only theme.

Amaterasu: The mythical all consuming black fire. It is depicted in the
series as being of extreme power, and it is… just like any other A and S
rank jutsu. In the series though, it is given high benefits, for high
risks, which is the loss of sight. So in this game, we have to look at
what is possible, and eliminate what is not.

First, what is not possible: One hit kills (from a literal coded sense,
not a mathematical one), sight loss (possible but not game mechanically
and it's just a pain in the ass for players and staff to deal with), Never
ending burning (simply not possible without creating new code.

Second, what is possible: Damage over Time (Poison), Highly damaging DoT
(high poison), High attack roll ranges based on the accuracy of eye only
coordination (Tricky (doesn't effect DoT), Chargable), Defenses that, if
they do not work fully, fail (Piercing). More powerful fire than standard
fire (Combination, which multiple clans have in some form or another)
There are other things that are possible, but this seems to wrap up the
essentials for Amaterasu.
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/117 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Mangakyou Jul 25 2013 Satomi

My answer to this is simple: In this write up… no.

Why? The Uchiha are currently - by far - the strongest clan in the
game! Secondly, these abilities exceed most endgame possibilities.

That said, I do have a situation where I wouldn't mind Mangekyou or
even its abilities you mentioned.

Mangekyou: S+ transformation, functions like any other S+ transform.

Then there's eternal Mangekyou, which functions like a pet S+…

Both of these have SIGNIFICANT costs on top of the regular S TF costs.
Not to mention the GIGANTIC requirements of a LONG STANDING HISTORY of
quality RP which depicts a true and fair reflection of an Uchiha and above
all human character. 'I R stronk, I maek sad scene, I r mangekyou' is not
going to cut it.

Then there's the abilities. Yes, I don't mind Amaterasu IF the mods it
has on it get unlocked FOR EVERY CLAN. That means any A+ attack can have
combination element + tricky + piercing + high poison without requiring
the skill bla bla. Likely to happend? No, but this shows just how
overpowered you suggested Amaterasu. Instead, app it while being 'normally
powered' in code (a c rank tricky + poison) while fluff/rp wise it being
some awesome move, and I totally don't mind. It's just text and being hurt
by black flames is cool, using them is cool, lets all hold hands and hug.

Susanoo would simply be a DR defense of any rank you wish from C -> S
… No more no less. Something to sink XP in. And just ONE LINE which is
roleplayed differently by everyone (permitted by the desc) It's fluff,
deal with it. You're already redicioulously strong. Just be 'cool' with
SUsanoo defenses in RP, not in extra code strength.

And Tsukoyomi: Just a high ranked gen, like any other high ranked gen.
No extra bonusses no nothing.

Under these terms, I don't mind Mangekyou, and I think it's a far more
realistic suggestion to do it this way. Since it doesn't make the Uchiha
any stronger. Just gives them the power to get a cool looking eye and RP
cool lines, without the code favoring them even more than it already does.
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Message: 10/118 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Mangekyou 2 Jul 25 2013 Fudo

So Amaterasu, looking at the mods we currently have, should be possible
without having to go beyond what anyone else is capable of doing. The only
true difference is the theme by which it does these things, which is part
of how a balance system can work.

Proposed Amaterasu Gains: Combination Element, Uchiha only theme.

Tsukoyomi: Honestly, given the system now, all Tsukoyomi is, is a
particularly swift genjutsu style that works off of time being relative.
There are people who have styles that manipulat people's sense of time
without having Mangekyou. The only real benefit that Tsukoyomi could get
would be the tricky mod. While this would make it roll a little better
than all Genjutsu /attacks/ (and only attacks) that exist of the same
rank, it would be in line with the current systems and mods available
other wise. Beyond this, we already have potent genjutsu, and now even
have chakra draining ability when combined with Chakra Absorption
Technique so… it's plenty powerful enough, and not having tricky isn't a
deal breaker, but it would make it fit what it is suppossed to be better
(genjutsu that works so quickly and so well you hardly have time to defend
against it, thus tricky).

Proposed Tsukoyomi Gains: Tricky mod. (The theme is technically not

Custom Style. This is the easiest one to mechanically control. Do not
allow it to do anything more than what is possible on the character and
within the system. One major mistep made in the past was that things like
Kamui were attempted to be balanced in this game. The issue with Kamui, is
that technically partially missing a target means that they are maimed or
dead. Fully hitting them means you remove them from this plane of
existence, or they are dead. And missing completely is entirely hard to do
given it is based on sight, but if you do miss, something else is entirely
gone now or destroyed/dead. It was literally a hit or miss jutsu that
created, thematically, the ability to go just about any where, avoid all
forms of damage, and remove entire opponents from a fight with one jutsu.
It's just beyond what this system can do. So… instead… do like what is
being done for Sharingan Specialization, allow for them to have custom
themes, but nothing beyond the system.

Proposed Custom Style Gains: Custom Theme based around Sharingan.

Adding this all up, the most that Mangekyou would provide and require
purchase there after to actually fill out, is the Tricky mod (maybe), and
Combination level jutsu (Which specialization already has and many other
clans do too). Beyond that, it's all fluff and things others can achieve
without it, likely far faster.
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Message: 10/119 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Suggestions Jul 25 2013 Shoki

Hey guys,
We here at staff really appreciate all the active feed back from the
players. We love to hear what the player base wants. We consider pretty
much everything that is tossed at us, be it on Gilgamesh or through the
suggestion board. And I don't really want to stop any of that.
Buuut…. we seem to have a small issue with players coming up with
rather radical changes they think would be 'spiffy' about once a week.
Most of these would take hours and hours, somtimes days and days of hard
staff work to even try to impliment. And then there are the balance
considerations, something we at staff take very seriously. And finally
there are some ideas that just are not very practical with the code we're
So what is the point of this post? Well, mostly to say while we
appreciate feed back and suggestions and I in no way want to discourage
open dialogue about things, please understand that most suggestions may
not get implimented for one reason or another. Somtimes it is because it
is an issue we have already greatly debated and addressed and don't want
to revisit it at this time because we haven't seen a problem and stick to
the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' idea. Some because we try to keep
things as simple as we can, and some because simply put we don't have the
man power to impliment them.
Be aware that many of the recent changes have been player driven. We do
listen! Honest! Lots! I just want to be sure folks understand that while
it is great to post ideas, know that once we have made a staff decision
still posting about it is not so great, and two while we may not accept a
given suggestion we definately hear you and are talking about it among
ourselves, pretty much constantly plus at weekly staff meetings.


Ps: This is my two cents and in no way speaks for all of staff.

As I got some questions about this post, let me clarify or add a TL;DR
note: We are grateful to get suggestions, please keep it up, but know that
quite a few of them are not going to get off the drawing board phase for
one reason or another and please be understanding that staff is very much
listening to you all.

Have a great day!
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Message: 10/120 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Defense mod - inexhaustive defense Jul 26 2013 Satomi

A simple suggestion and I was curious about the opinions on this. I want
to suggest adding 'inexhaustive defense' to the C-rank mods. It's a mod
which makes the cost for a defense 10% cheaper.

For balance purposes this mod should be applyable to all defenses. But
I mostly suggest it for genjutsu defenses. Simply because after VD you
can't put any mod on genjutsu defenses and getting DR on genjutsu is very
difficult if not impossible.

So, inexhaustive defenses should become a popular mod on C-rank
genjutsu defenses (and probably also B-rank). And it might provide some
tactical advantage on other jutsu as well. So 10% cheaper, no drawbacks.

Curious to hear opinions! :)

And YES I'm aware inexpensive defense exists. It's not the same!
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Message: 10/121 (timeout warning) Posted Author
My two cent in form of a suggestio Aug 09 2013 Zetto

Disclaimer: This is just my two cents and food for thought. Things for
staff to discuss, take into account or to just ignore if they want to do
so. Nothing special and I dont claim to be an expert when it comes to how
things work on this MUSH. Still things can always be improved and here is
one possible direction/way.

- Relative/relativity

A good while ago there was a discussion related to genjutsu on public
channel. I just kind of kept thinking about it and the bigger picture and
in the end came to conclusion that maybe things could be little more
relative. If I am not gravely mistaken at the moment it does not matter
from what stats your opponents skills go off from. Your
skill/attack/whatever uses its own stats and other persons
skill/defense/whatever may go off from completely different stats. There
is no relation and no relativity. Everything is isolated so to speak. For
example maybe the other person is really fast and you are really slow. Are
you fast enough to react in time and/or make your handseals or maybe the
other guy is really good at ninjutsu and you are not and as it is you are
having kind of hard time to read into his handseals/whatever to prepare
and make your defense perfect? Obviously everything and all can just be
RPed but since this MUSH has a combat system, which crunches out numbers
maybe there could be a factor included, which would increase or decrease
chance/probability of success based on this relativity.

1. Taijutsu

If a person makes a Taijutsu attack then maybe there should be a
comparison of tai stat of both attacker and defender regardless of if the
defense used is tai, nin or gen. Difference between the two would then be
factored into final roll result (+- something). Nothing game breaking, but
just a slight effect to make it more or less propable to succeed depending
on if the difference is in favour of attacker or not and how big the
difference is (with set max possible value to make sure it stays as slight
effect only provided that the gap is big). Why tai stat? Just because
attack used is tai and I suppose knowledge/general skill in tai
should/could help in general provided that you have to defend against one.
Also since different tai attack go off from different stats and everything
does not go off from speed it is best to use the main tai skill stat,
which is tai, instead of any physical statistics.

2. Ninjutsu

If a person makes a Ninjutsu attack then maybe there should be a
comparison of Nin stat of both attacker and defender regardless of if the
defense used is tai, nin or gen. Difference between the two would then be
factored into final roll result (+- something). Nothing game breaking, but
just a slight effect to make it more or less propable to succeed depending
on if the difference is in favour of attacker or not and how big the
difference is (with set max possible value to make sure it stays as slight
effect only provided that the gap is big). Why Nin stat? Just because
attack used is Nin and I suppose knowledge/general skill in Nin
should/could help in general provided that you have to defend against one.
Things like from those handseals maybe produce that kind of jutsu…. etc.
Also since different Nin attacks might go off from different stats and
everything does not go off from lets say seals or whatever it is best to
use the main Nin skill stat.

3. Genjutsu

If a person makes a Genjutsu attack then maybe there should be a
comparison of Gen stat of both attacker and defender regardless of if the
defense used is tai, nin or gen. Difference between the two would then be
factored into final roll result (+- something). Nothing game breaking, but
just a slight effect to make it more or less propable to succeed depending
on if the difference is in favour of attacker or not and how big the
difference is (with set max possible value to make sure it stays as slight
effect only provided that the gap is big). Why Gen stat? Just because
attack used is Gen and I suppose knowledge/general skill in gen
should/could help in general. etc.

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Message: 10/122 (timeout warning) Posted Author
My two cent in form of a suggestio Aug 09 2013 Zetto

There it is. Since I am not on top of things and am out of loop maybe
there already is a system like this in use. Maybe there is not, maybe this
is a good idea or maybe this is just absolutely horrible idea and world
will end. Whatever the case maybe be I rest my case.

With all respect,
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Message: 10/123 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Suggestion number 2 part 1 Aug 09 2013 Zetto

Disclaimer: This is just my two cents and food for thought. Things for
staff to discuss, take into account or to just ignore if they want to do
so. Nothing special and I dont claim to be an expert when it comes to how
things work on this MUSH. Still things can always be improved and here is
one possible direction/way.

There was this discussion on chat channel recently related to this and in
general I have been thinking about these two particular subjects for a
while. I just never bothered to make a post till now.

1. Are all clans up to date in relation to their cost in chargen.

- Different clans cost different amounts of points in CG. The higher the
cost the more you get or something along these lines. I assume and suppose
this is the basic concept used when NMR 2.0 was created. Exact formula may
wary. Ever since that day there has been good number of changes. Some
things have been removed, some things have been added, and new clans have
arrived, this and that here and there. In general the MUSH has moved on.
Obviously there is nothing wrong with any of that but I went through bunch
of news files, checked out good number of clans and started wondering
about if all clans are up to date. This being said maybe there should be a
system wide audit on all clans just to check everything is in line and up
to date to current standards.
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Message: 10/124 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Suggestion number 2 part 2 Aug 09 2013 Zetto

Disclaimer: This is just my two cents and food for thought. Things for
staff to discuss, take into account or to just ignore if they want to do
so. Nothing special and I dont claim to be an expert when it comes to how
things work on this MUSH. Still things can always be improved and here is
one possible direction/way.

2. Kekkei Genkai and Hidenjutsu. Are all of these we currently have
working as intended or are some too vague and lack in mechanics
department, which can lead to general problems and arguments?

- Apart from stat points, styles and other slighty more generic feeling
things, a clan can have Kekkei Genkai and Hidenjutsu. While styles, stats
etc. are all obviously important, as far as clans go it would seem the
main actors here are KG and Hidenjutsu. I assume reason to pick a clan
should not be just because paying for the clan costs less than paying for
the merits separately. (Is that really a good reason?) So again I assume
in essence each clan should have it's own thing, THE reason to pick said
clan. Something which makes the clan what is it and THE reason why a clan
feels good and defines the clan. At least in most cases KG or Hidenjutsu
is this special thing to that clan. And this is the whole point of a KG or
Hidenjutsu. What it does is special to that clan. If it is just something,
which can be randomly apped/copied/replicated by pretty much anyone
anywhere then what is the point? I supposed A KG or Hidenjutsu should have
very concrete meaning. Like combination release like lets say ice is
something not only flavourful but also unique or at least really rare but
also with it's own mechanics (combination element) etc. Not just
something, which can be replicated just like that. Uchiha and the
Sharingan is also another good and easy example. Sharingan does a lot. For
example ability to copy things to a degree feels good, is unique and comes
with it's own mechanics. Not just something, which can be replicated like
that. Toujitakumi have explosion manipulation and it even comes with a
free mod slot for AEO. Now that's great, feels good and carries a real
value. Not just…etc. So in essence be it ocular KG, transformation
hidenjutsu, combination element KG or insect hiden and the list goes on…
it should mean something, have it's mechanics and not just be some generic
thing, which can be rather easily apped/copied/replicated. Now there is a
slight problem with this. If a hidenjutsu or KG is something too generic
to begin with then there will be issues with it being replicated too
easily and debates and arguments will follow. It kind of comes rather hard
not to end up in such situation. Anyway to get to the point after all this
rant: Does it not just means said hidenjutsu/KG lacks it's own mechanics,
lacks it's own value and should be looked at and given it's own
mechanics/value/thing. So basically hidenjutsu/kg without it's own
mechanics is really not a hidenjutsu/KG at all but just a generic thing
which could be apped/replicated anyway and not something, which makes or
breaks a clan. So are all these current KG and hidenjutsu working as
intended having their own mechanics and value?

Well that came out more as a rant and it would seem I found it hard to get
to the point and illustrate my suggestion/questions. Please excuse me.

With respect,
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Message: 10/125 (timeout warning) Posted Author
Re: Relativity Aug 10 2013 Fudo

To be blunt, there are a few issues with creating a relativistic buff or
debuff based on a particular skill set that is associated with a category
stat (tai/nin/gen). The main issue is, extra coding would need to be done.
Nothing like this currently exists. The closest thing we had was
powerlevel, but that was based on total stats so it wasn't even relative
to anything but strength period.
The second problem is that it would require a rebalance of how each
category works in order to be implimented. Right now, the way that
categories are being balanced is entirely based on what they can do and to
a degree, how easily they do it. If "generalist" builds or at least more
broad than specialized (focusing on one category) becomes more necessary,
then the categories themselves have to change to reflect this, or you will
get over powered and under powered results even with minor tweaks.
The third problem is that because the stat cap and limits are so small,
it creates a situation where even small changes make large differences. As
an example, roll factors increase by 1 per rank. There is a rather
significant difference per rank of jutsu (especially as you get more
stats) simply by adding 1 to a factor. Stats themselves generally have
less of an effect with just an increase of 1, but then you get to the
issue of too little to matter, or too much to work with. Takes a lot of
time to mathematically balance. Percentage bonuses… have issues that
would be hard to predict in some cases. Let's say a pure taijutsuist
fights a tai/ninjutsuist. Well, the Ninjutsuist has the advantage, even if
they have less skill in both ninjutsu and taijutsu with this idea. Why?
Because unless the difference is significant, the Taijutsu skill would
augement the Ninjutsu skill, making it even or superior to the pure
taijutsuist. On top of that, Ninjutsu is simply better than Taijutsu in
every way aside from certain resource management issues. So in variety, as
well as damage, the pure Taijutsuist likely loses, simply due to being a
specialist in their own field, while using their own field's jutsu agaisnt
an opponent whom is not as skilled as them, but is more versatile, which
in and of itself is an equalizing factor.
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Message: 10/126 Posted Author
RE: Zetto Aug 12 2013 Takeshi

1) Relativity
I find this concept honestly amusing. I don't really know where it came
from either. There isn't really a concept of relativity in anything.
Ninjutsu is Ninjutsu, Taijutsu is Taijutsu, Genjutsu is Genjutsu. Taijutsu
doesn't require the application of Ninjutsu, Ninjutsu doesn't require the
application of Genjutsu and so on and so forth. Some people are really
fast on their feet, some are really strong, others can make handseals
really quickly, but we have stats for all that. A water boxer and a person
practicing aikido aren't bound by some rule of relativity. One will win,
one will lose. Which one that is is based entirely on the skill of each.
Neither one is at a natural disadvantage just based on using different
things. In that same vein, a Water Boxer isn't disadvantaged to a
iaijutsuist just because the Iaijutsuist has a weapon. There is no
inherent advantage to either one of them. The one with the greatest skill
will win. It is the same with this game. A taijutsuist isn't at a
disadvantage to ninjutsuist because of the reach of ninjutsu attacks just
like a Ninjutsuist isn't at a disadvantage because the taijutsuist moves
fast. That isn't comparable.

2) Clan Costs in CG
Seem pretty fair to me in the long run for what each one gets. Did you
have specific concerns?

3) KG and Hidenjutsu?
I didn't really understand most of this, but the base thing that you were
trying to get to is that unmechanical KG aren't really KG. I beg to
differ. I made a clan that's only KG was being able to focus their
ninjutsu through sound - any sound. Did it have a true mechanical effect?
No? It only let me use ninjutsu as long as there was any sound still
remaining. Not a big deal mechanically but certainly unique enough to make
the RP fun. But ultimately, back to, do you have specific examples?
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Message: 10/127 Posted Author
Clan Costs Aug 12 2013 Valkyrie

Just a few months ago, I did an audit on the costs of clans, and made a
couple of minor adjustments, and gave the Uchiha a pretty substantial
nerf. Since then, I've looked at a couple of clans as they've been
specifically brought to my attention, but generally speaking I think the
clan costs are pretty much where we want them.

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Message: 10/128 Posted Author
Damaging Taijutsu Aug 12 2013 Fudo

I have been looking over the earlier/foundational episodes of Naruto,
which is largely what we have based our core rules and systems upon. I am
wondering about Taijutsu and it's current place in the game. Right now,
the only way to truly make taijutsu shine, is to use Ninjutsu with it in
some way. While this does make sense, the show does explicitely go in to
high risk taijutsu that pushes this concept in the direction of pure
taijtusu breaking the barrier. The most notable form of this is with the
gates, but as is quite obvious, that uses chakra, even if it isn't
directed. So what i am suggesting is this:
I believe that perhaps a self damaging mod of some sort should be
implimented as a taijutsu only. This mod would do some harm to the
character, but it would increase the damage potential of the jutsu to that
of chakra assisted taijutsu. I also believe this mod should also be
applicable to chakra tai and raise the damage up to ninjutsu levels. The
balance of this of course, is that these high risk jutsu take away health
/on top/ of the normal costs. So for pure tai, it would be full stamina
and health cost, and for chakra tai, it would be full stamina, chakra, and
health costs. Mechanically, this would just make it so that ninjutsu
doesn't dictate almost all of the truly viable damage for taijutsu, and it
is a tactical choice more so than something that should be used all the
time, as long as the health is drained enough (honestly, 100 to … 200 is
probably fine considering it is per attack. Though considering ranks, it
may be best to go with, from D, 100 (300 max), 150 (300 max, less if mixed
with D), 300 (300 max), 400 (400 max), 600 (600 max). These costs may seek
a bit steep, especially at the end, but it equates to about taking a blow
from an E rank at max stats for the A rank jutsu, and about a D rank at
max stats from the S rank jutsu and given the infrequent use of techniques
of this level, it may be alright.).
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Message: 10/129 Posted Author
Single User Skills Aug 19 2013 Katsurou

So ive been thinking on this in the past couple of days and I just cant
let it go. So here's my response to Shoki's wanting more shared skills
post: What you're asking for and how the current system of "styles" is in
place contradicts each other. It takes PP to learn new styles to learn a
new variety of skills. And lets be real, having a variety of styles
doesn't win fights. Its having the super ultra mega chain of TFs and
summons that do. So having said that, most people (I said most, not ALL)
would rather spend their PP on TFs and summons and whatever bells and
whistles that sling shots their character up in power level. Im not saying
that's a bad thing exactly, that's just how this current system works.
People are adaptive so what do they do when they see a flaw in their skill
set? They app another skill that is in theme with their current style to
bridge that gap. That way they are only spending XP and not PP. Thus
creating a ripple effect of these "single user" skills. What im saying is
you cant expect to have a system like "styles" and not expect a load of
single user skills. You have pick your battles here.

Solution: Not that its my job to come up with these but i can think of a
few suggestions.

1) Look back over how multiple styles are purchased. I don't think having
multiple styles should be on the same par as TFs and summons when it comes
to gauging "power" that would call for the use of PP. However, i do
understand that it contains character growth. Not saying that's the end
all answer, just consider it.

2) Discount styles and skills that are taught from character to character.
They would need to supply logs and perhaps even the "teacher" sending in
an app giving permission for the "student" to app such technique. *shrugs*
Have to have accountability in some way right? This method also provides a
new variety of RP hooks for scenes so that we're still not stuck on the
(Social -> Spar -> Mission -> Social -> Spar -> Mission) cycle.

3) I had a third suggestion but i forgot. So i'll just put "to be
announced later".

Katsurou for Hokage 2013
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Message: 10/130 Posted Author
Damage Aug 25 2013 Nori

So, having been injured a bit…I've noticed that the states of being
damaged don't match up with what is in +news damage2. Maybe we could fix
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/131 Posted Author
Styles and skill rework! Aug 26 2013 Joker

Been a while since I made a suggestion! So here it goes, I'll try to
explain as best I can. Since it's quite radical!

So, I based this idea off two discussions, and several assumptions. These
are the following:

Shoki recently noted people rarely buy styles, since truthfully. It's
redundant with - most - styles! The xp is usually much better spent on new

Now with Staff's decision to limit the amount of chuunins you can start,
this idea came up. Since Arisu rightfully pointed out: It - might - create
a gap (or it might eventually lessen it.)

So, with that in mind. Here comes my suggestion. It rolls off a couple
more presumptions. But you'll see them as a I present the whole thing.

So, without further ado: This will require some calculations and coding.
That said:

My idea is, to change the way we buy jutsu! We can safely assume that a
ninja learns a style, then slowly gets better at this style. As time
progresses. To promote buying more style, I say we change things up so you
get base layers of jutsu which slowly grow onto a character. Let me
explain in more detail by an example:

I have a chuunin, in CG. My first style will be: Fire manipulation! In
this new system, you'll get 2 free jutsu with that style. Both D-rank.
This style will now officially be dubbed: Tier 1.

As time progresses, and I play along, I notice I'm ready for my
C-ranks! To advance to tier 2, offering you 2 C-ranks within the same
style, you need to make a bulk payment. Instead of a fixed 6xp per jutsu
(to be calculated to fit current progression speed!) Now, it takes 1 week
to receive each of your C-ranks (you app both, the moment they're both
approved the weeks stat counting (coded) so they automatically show up on
sundays.) This way, you gradually receive your skills!

So now you reached tier 2, the same goes up until tier 5! But here is
the thing. To get 2 more C-ranks, the last, highest tier upgrade cost must
be paid to stay within the same style! So say you just got your tier 4,
you would need to pay another tier 4 to get 2 c-ranks (or 2 A-ranks)!
Within that same style. This is because you want to promote diversity in

Now, you can see how one skill tree (style) progresses! Here's the thing.
When a ninja masters fire style. It makes sense that another ninjutsu
style will be much easier to learn! This translates into a second style
being CHEAPER depending on howfar you tiered into another style of the
same catagory. I was thinking 10% per tier. So having S-ranks in fire
manipulation: means I can get 50% off on every single tier I buy for seal
mastery! Or wind manipulation!

Obviously, next tiers will be expensive enough to make it not only
smart, but neccasery to build into 2 or 3 different styles to get your
baseline of skills (which will be relatively cheap) … And actual mastery
of a style, will be increasingly expensive. (So, getting S-ranks should
take about the same time getting 2 S-ranks takes right now)… Should be
easy to calculate, then just adjust the costs!

To increase diversity even more, to unlock the next tier, the same
number of styles must be unlocked (tier 2 requires 2 styles, tier 3
requires your character to know 3… ect.)

The reason you only get 2 jutsu for tiering up in a style, is that in
the end you'll have more jutsu due to bulk buying them with your style
(even though they gradually unlock)

To honor standardization, the following changes also need to be made: VD
and DR and style ranks:

At the moment, damage types are a redundant factor, only really
applicable in early fights (early chuunin/mid-genin) with a niche
character. The only exception being Psi! So, I want that to play a factor
again, since it can really spice up fights! Finding the angle of attack
your opponent has difficulty defending against should be a major factor in
strategy (in my mind)! I think it's what damage types started as, but soon
the effect was lost. This suggestion also should impr
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/132 Posted Author
Styles and skill rework! #2 Aug 26 2013 Joker

At the moment, damage types are a redundant factor, only really
applicable in early fights (early chuunin/mid-genin) with a niche
character. The only exception being Psi! So, I want that to play a factor
again, since it can really spice up fights! Finding the angle of attack
your opponent has difficulty defending against should be a major factor in
strategy (in my mind)! I think it's what damage types started as, but soon
the effect was lost. This suggestion also should improve balance

It works like this: D-rank styles are cheapest. They offer a maximum of 3
damage types for offense, and 4 for defense. C-ranks are a little more
expensive, offering 4 O, and 5D, B ranks are more expensive, they offer 5O
and 6D. A ranks are KG, Hidenjutsu or advanced styles, which require base
styles to be unlocked. They carry 6O and 7D damage types. S rank styles
are limited to Bijuu and Senin. 8 O and 8 D.

The damage types you have in both offense and defense, are decided by the
player when purchasing the style (should be loggable by the code) so you
decide what direction you'll take your style when purchasing it! You still
have freedom to be creative, but are limited in damage types at the same
time. More so in offense than in defense.

Changes to VD: VD will give you ALL the defensive damage types on a style
on your defense. The rest of the mechanics (no or reduced DR) stay the
same. DR remains the same, however, DR skills can only block 2 or 3
(depends on what staff thinks) damage types.

This raises the skill roof considerably. Since you'll have lots of new
angles to cover (and yes, it would mean a huge skill rework. In fact, I
think a reset might be neccasery if we implement this or a similar

The reason I suggest this, is because I believe it's a cooler (more
styles, more diversity) more balanced (easier to standardize) and more
realistic progression-wise. I also - know - this should help considerably
closing the gap between early and late genin, or chuunin and genin. Or …
anyone really. As long as the tiers match up in one jutsu tree, they
should be able to do aproximately the same damage.

An additional bonus is: Mods will matter, since you have limited about of
jutsu per style, you can't have all mods on all ranks. They will
significantly change the strategy you have while fighting! Which brings me
to the last point. I think this system makes fighting a lot more strategic
(and diverse) to begin with. Since you'll constantly need to change up and
play a game of chess with your opponent. Imagine a fight, you're hiding
your wind style from someone, after careful observation you notice he
doesn't have a c-rank defense against wind style attacks, which allows you
to force your opponent to roll more expensive defenses against your c-rank
wind style, just by out 'playing' them!
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/133 Posted Author
Making Unarmed Taijutsu Useful Aug 30 2013 Amiko

Quick suggestion for a new mod that could end the woes of pure Taijutsu,
which many people have noted is quite underpowered.
+bb Quick suggestion for a new mod that could end the woes of pure
Taijutsu, which many people have noted is quite underpowered.%r%Chakra
Focus%r%tThat's right, my suggestion already exists and is working
perfectly on E-ranks. Unfortunately, the small amount of chakra that the
techniques focus, and the low rank of them means that in higher level
fights its far more useful to simply focus chakra and use your big jutsu
on subsequent turns. However, if Chakra Focus was made to be a mod on
other pure Taijutsu (note: only on non-weapon, non-chakra, non-elemental
taijutsu) it could make it far more useful for, well, pretty much anyone
who needs chakra. Instead of avoiding using Taijutsu altogether, Nin- and
Genjutsuists could take an unarmed Taijutsu style for those times when
they're low on chakra but don't have the opportunity to stop and
focus.%r%rThoughts, developments, improvements, other suggestions?hakra
That's right, my suggestion already exists and is working perfectly on
E-ranks. Unfortunately, the small amount of chakra that the techniques
focus, and the low rank of them means that in higher level fights its far
more useful to simply focus chakra and use your big jutsu on subsequent
turns. However, if Chakra Focus was made to be a mod on other pure
Taijutsu (note: only on non-weapon, non-chakra, non-elemental taijutsu) it
could make it far more useful for, well, pretty much anyone who needs
chakra. Instead of avoiding using Taijutsu altogether, Nin- and
Genjutsuists could take an unarmed Taijutsu style for those times when
they're low on chakra but don't have the opportunity to stop and focus.

Thoughts, developments, improvements, other suggestions?
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/134 Posted Author
Making Unarmed Taijutsu Useful Add Aug 30 2013 Amiko

As a note about my last post, I'm suggesting that the mod Chakra Focus be
appable on Taijutsu techniques above E-rank, with higher amounts of chakra
being focused on higher level techniques. This would still take up a mod
slot. Thanks!
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/135 Posted Author
Useful Taijutsu Aug 31 2013 Fudo

This system used to be the idea behind E rank attacks in general, but
primarily pure taijutsu was the most effective. Back when they rolled
better and had twice the amount of focus, it was enough to maintain high
level combat without making it so that the people using E rank taijutsu
were unbeatable due to the chakra gains. It was a tactical decision, that
even allowed and gave reason for characters to start off with E ranks and
low level jutsu, and work their way up, as it built their base of chakra
up without focusing and the hit range wasn't too bad. Now however…
personally, i see very little reason to have a lot of E ranks, or to use
them often (attacks any how).
More to the point, a scaling, pure taijutsu focus mod may be alright…
but it requires a mathematical eye for the long run of a fight, more than
the short term of it. For instance, it has to take in to account how many
jutsu are used in a round offensively, how much transformations cost, how
much the jutsu itself costs.. and balance all this with an over time gain
of chakra. It won't be easy, but it may not be a bad idea.
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/136 Posted Author
Re: Taijutsu Aug 31 2013 Arisu

This is just an idea… Something to help give Taijutsu users something
that makes their taijutsu worth it, and it may not be a great idea, but
since pure Taijutsu does sub-par damage when compared to Ninjutsu, maybe
the benefit of Taijutsu could be that pure taijutsuists can do an extra
attack per round. That's 4 E/D rank attacks, 3 C-ranks, 2 B-ranks, and 1
A/S Rank.

Another idea as per Fudo's suggestion, for those characters who DON'T use
only pure Taijutsu (which… I assume is most people.) is a mod for
Taijutsu attacks that allows them to be used to charge chakra, that can
scale based on the rank of the skill being used.
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/137 Posted Author
Re: Taijutsu Aug 31 2013 Fudo

I suppose what has to be decided is… is pure Taijutsu a primary form
of combat, or a supplimentary form of combat? So far, in the Narutoverse,
as well as in this game, it is a supplimentary form of combat. Why do I
say that? Because it is somewhat limited without ninjutsu. It works
differently, just using stamina, but for that, it is weaker. It has less
mods. It can over all do less in most situations. It just is not
capable… until you add ninjutsu to it. Chakra tai, Elemental Tai, etc.
At that point, it gains far more ability, more damage, and over all
becomes "competative". It is the same in Naruto the series, except in
that, one kunai can actually kill someone… in the right circumstances.
But even Taijutsu experts.. that focus on nothing but Taijutsu, use chakra
to make it viable in the shinobi world.
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/138 Posted Author
RE: Taijutsu Aug 31 2013 Takeshi

I don't know about anyone else using taijutsu, but, when I need to put
someone into damage states, I can easily do that. So not sure where the
perception that nijutsu does more damage is. I've seen myself do more
damage than ninjutsu and less, just like i've seen people do more damage
than me and less than me with ninjutsu. So I guess I don't see where the
'pure taijutsu is awful' argument is.
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/139 Posted Author
Re: Taijutsu Aug 31 2013 Fudo

The damage scale goes: Taijutsu -> Chakra Tai -> Combination
Tai/Ninjutsu (I assume) -> Combination Ninjutsu. The reason why we say
that pure taijutsu does the least damage… is because it literally does
by system standards.
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/140 Posted Author
Wardrobe malfunction Sep 04 2013 Taiki

Is there something wrong with the wardrobe commands? For some reason my
desc is coming up twice when I look at myself. Help?
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/141 Posted Author
+joinrp Push Sep 05 2013 Hel

Perhaps we can have a +joinrp/push & +joinrp/remove <Name> commands to
make it easier to keep scenes moving forward when people forget to +et and
either switch screens or walk away. Even if this is made into just a
GM/Staff only command, that would be cool, but I think players could be
trusted with it (as long as abusing it constitutes something akin to page
harassment or something).

+joinrp/push would just push the turn to the next person in the order.

+joinrp/remove <name> would take that person out of the roster entirely
(like +leaverp).
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/142 Posted Author
Multiple Counters Sep 06 2013 Fudo

I am curious as to how people feel about allowing more counters per turn
if someone invests in more than one counter of an appropriate rank. Since
counters are limited in when they can be useful any how (user has to
predict a good chance of it working as a defense /and/ attack with one
roll being blind), and is also limited in use by the actions the opponent
takes (only 1 rank higher at most is allowed), and it costs more to use
than a normal attack, and it it is working as a generally lower rolling
"defense" before it is an attack (which exasserbates the initial limit), I
am proposing this possibility to allow for counters to have a little more
If it is not clear, i'm asking if different "unique" counters can be
used per turn, since individual ones are only allowed to be used once.
NarutoMUSH Rivalry Bulletin Boards Suggestions
Message: 10/143 Posted Author
Apps Sep 07 2013 Fudo

We used to have a policy where, instead of simply denying an app because
of… maybes and mights or because of the assumption that it would, in
this specific case, not work for the character due to things entirely
outside of the jutsu itself, we /talked/ to the player about it and tried
to see if it could be tailored to how we concieved it working instead of
denying it out right. I am suggesting that perhaps staff may want to do
this in the future.
I am suggesting this "change" of policy because it is increadibly
frustrating to submit several different ideas over the course of months,
to have them all denied without question or chance to change over things

1. A couple of words that are not at all important to the function of the

2. An attack and a defense sharing a desc with the proper wording just
because they are an attack and defense (this used to be acceptable policy
when that was a mod, btw).

3. Adding in ficticious possibilities on to the concept of the
applications as to why it may or may not work in a specific circumstance.

4. Adding in RP based possibilities that some how override the common
sense of the character using the jutsu (I.E. They would some how suddenly
be too dumb to properly use their jutsu where as in all other cases of
making lightning storms and tidal waves and shooting balls of fire from
their mouth there is no question in their competancy in doing so.)

5. Wavering decisions about how mods work. If they are unclear, this is
usually staffs fault, and if they are clear and the player does not
understand, then explain to them what they should understand. There is no
reason for staff to not be sure about how mods work /while/ they deny your

The only time a denial should be done without discussion /but/ with a
thorough explination, is when the concept simply cannot at all, in any
way, work in this system due to lore, canon, or rules. Other wise, contact
with the player should be attempted or made until the matter is resolved.
I realize that you all like to go in order to get the skills done, but
there are very good reasons why you should hold off on a skill and talk to
players /before/ denying them if it's just one or a couple of the issues
above (and probably some i've missed). It keeps the players frustration
levels down from never understanding why they are denied or from
"constantly" being denied. It allows for them to have a much better idea
what they are doing wrong, if anything, as well as gives staff, who are
only human after all, a better idea of what the player wants. It is
important that the players do not feel like they were nitpicked in to
waiting another few days to a week for a skill. Literally, i had to
/reapply/ for a skill because of the fact that i said that it was able to
be used for an attack and defense… and applied for an attack and defense
with that description. /ALL/ I had to do… was simply change two words,
to make one say it attacked, and one say it was a defense. But if the
skill line was long (As it had been before), I would have had to wait days
for that to be "approved" when it could have been fixed by staff in
seconds. This should not happen. I suggest (as that is all I can do) that
you guys figure out a way to make it not happen in the future.

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